Hello Becky,im rather bemused and disgusted over your comments,regarding circus animals,Have you ever visited a circus with animals,have you ever taken the time to go and look at the stables,and the facilitys that Circuses can provide,As i own Horses and have been involved with all sorts of animals in My life in the circus,i really dont think you should comment until you have seen for your self,I own 6 horses,and i could never imagine my self to be cruel to my Boys..There welfare and there quality of life is paramount to me,and other animal owners in the circus…Or else why would we have them….They are a full time occupation,and at the moment mine are enjoying there time out in there paddocks,Have nice warm stables,quality food and hay,and are knee deep in shavings,what they sleep on..They have just had another visit from there farrier,and everything is made possible for there utmost care and comfort,this includes there transportation,and there stable management,which i am very proud of….Circus animals have a fantastic quality of life and are constantly monitored as we are with them all day….I hope you would have a look at the Circus the truth page on Facebook,where you can see the other side of the story……Kind Regards, Amanda and my Boys….
Fantastic my ass. How do you teach a 10,000 lb elephant to do tricks? You beat her, shock her, whip her, chain her, and take away her spirit. If you call that “fantastic”, then I feel really sorry for your existance.
To Amanda, Are you saying that animals, like Elephants really like to do stupid tricks,and balancing on a ball etc.It.s not normal behaviour for such a large animal is it. It’s obviously forced and bullied into doing so. travalling around in cramped cages/lorries. You could argue that there are some good,circus owners and some bad. But their first concern os profit,no the animals.
This is such a load of crap! Making tigers jump through blazing hoops, elephants to stand on their heads and horses to endure 300lbs of bit. Amanda, my dear, you live in a dreamworld. I dare to admit that circus animals DO NOT have a fantastic quality of life. Aren’t animals’ natural habitat to live in wild places and walk 40 miles a day? Yes, but they can’t do that when they are chained and living in cities and box cars. My god woman! The reason you have them is to make money. It’s all in the name of exploitation. Horses would rather run free and through fields, not be inside a tent doing stupid tricks for paying delusional spectators and owners that live in a fantasy land.
Actually for the record i dont need animals to earn a living as you state..i am a trapeze artist,and i certainly dont need the the Responsibility an worry of having and taking care of animals properly,i would have a relatively easier life, without the Constant care and time my Horses need,Ask any Responsible and caring equine owner,All animals need This,before you start judging me and my Life,and my Horses,you need to get your facts right,When its cold are they warm enough,when its hot,are they comfortable enough,do they have enough water, do they have enough Hay,Have they been fed on time,are they clean an well groomed,have they had there feet trimmed on time,and had there teeth checked,There annual health vaccinations on the right day of the year,The list goes on,animals are not machines and are part of my Family,some thing that you obviously dont understand,all you can say is they dont belong in a circus,What you see in the ring for 5 minutes is Nothing to what goes on outside,you have never spent a day with me,or a week or a month,so dont give your opinion until you no the facts …
Can you clarify what you mean by 300 POUNDS OF BIT?? Sorry i was brought up with the queens english and although im well educated i didnt quite understand that.Perhaps if you look at footage of Alex Lacey on The dragons tour of ringlands circus,watch him,see his videos,See how he devotes his life to his animals,you might better understand How animals are trained, positive reinforcement and rewards are usually the way,I would like to state i certainly dont live in a dream world,i have Horses to take care of,something that you obviously no nothing about…Its people like you that are very well uneducated and misinformed,i certainly am not cruel to my Horses,and as an animal lover, I do everything i possibly can to ensure they have everything they need,im very proud of my animal husbandry and i am always trying to improve my standards, and my knowledge of equines,I certainly dont have to explain my self to someone that i dont no,or doesnt no me,or My life,or my beloved Horses.Some of the horrific animal cruelty that is sometimes posted on Face book here in the uk,is quite sickening,tigers with there heads cut off,and dogs being strung up,these are the things you should be stopping,and leave people alone who generally care and love there Animals….
You failed to mention in the post above that YOU are part of a circus. No wonder you claim the animals have a fantastic quality of life. And I have seen what goes on and fantastic is not the adjective I would choose. I prefer cruel, heartless, inhumane.
So you are saying that i am cruel To my horses,you have never met me,or seen my Horses,So how can you comment on something that you no nothing about,I am 5th generation Circus artiste,My family have had the pleasure of working and taking care of Animals,And i am proud to own my Boys,whose welfare and standard of care are paramount to me,I dont understand your logic on being cruel to any sort of animal,I no mine are part of my Family and i could never imagine being cruel or neglecting them,They didnt choose to be here,its up to me to give them the best life i possibly can…And im proud of the fact that, as a British Citizen,i take care and train them to the best of my capability’s,Please get your facts right,before you judge someone that you no nothing about…Kind Regards Amanda and her Horses.
HI Becky. Like Amanda I also have horses (9 in total) and I have worked in circus with them. I can assure you there is no crulety involved. My horses thrive on working and love learning new things. One of my new ones has tought himself how to lie down by watching the others. When it comes to performing you can see how much they love it and yes sometimes it doesnt go to plan but this only shows that my anaimlas are not forcedinto anything and have their own minds. My horses have top graded haylage and lovely shaving beds. They have two hard feeds a day and they get turned out daily.I will invite anyone over to come and watch a practice session and veiw my horses. I have my bhs stage two and I am currently working on my stage 3 and ptt. Many Thanks
Jema
Yes, why Becky? Why do your horses do the work and you get paid for them??????? Hmmmmmmmmmmm?????????? Animal exploitation and lazy ass people. It’s so long overdue for people to stop using animals for entertainment. It’s disgusting and so are the people involved in it. You should be ashamed of yourself.
becky digby you dont know what you are talking about,go and find out for your self, not listern to other peoples views, i am not saying all circuses in the world are great but nither are all pet owners but you can not ban something just because a few abuse it if you did there would be no pets no farm animals and no kids ,each circus should be judged on its own merits,circuses tend to breed there own animals not take them from the wild they would not survive in the wild, they are well cared for ,get the best vet care,good food, and they dont have to fight each other for it like they do in the wild ,circuses tend to keep and train all there offspring not like in zoos and wild life parks where they only keep the females alive and put the males to sleep,
You are uninformed, and cruel. DO SOME RESEARCH ! Have you seen videos of elephants chained, beaten and whipped, to preform ?
Get a grip , and watch some documentaries, or u tube.
Idiot.
Karen, As an animal lover I’m afraid I couldn’t watch any animal being mistreated. How anyone could stand there and film such an act sickens me to the core. If a genuine animal lover were to witness anything like it they would be straight on the ‘phone to the relevant authorities, then stepping in to confront the abusers. Not standing there with a camera!!
I know the Animal Defence International, (ADI), had a job advertised last year, with an $18,000 reward for video evidence of cruelty within the performing animal industry, so I can understand why it encourages people to stage footage to give to the press and media, I suppose if the money is right some people will stand there and film. Not me though. My love and concern is too genuine.
Each circus should be judged on its own merit? ANY and EVERY circus that exploits animals for human entertainment should be closed down… animals DO NOT belong in a circus, not Ringlings, Not Carson and Barnes and not yours Muriel… animals do not exist to entertain humans and they do not exist so YOU can make money from them doing tricks that in the wild would be completely foreign to them… perhaps you could try and make your living by running a circus where the performers HAVE A CHOICE!!!!
I would be very interested in reading the documents and archives pertaining to the zoos and sanctuaries that put male elephants to sleep and only keep the females. I am not sure how this can be since the U.S. circuses breed elephant sand a male (bull) elephant is required for this. I apologize, I just could not find any documentation on bull elephant euthanasia pertaining to zoos and sanctuaries – maybe I am not looking the right places. I do know that bull elephants are extremely dangerous to keep intact (not neutered) because they go into musth, a periodic condition in bull elephants, that characterized by highly aggressive behavior, accompanied by a large rise in reproductive hormones – testosterone levels in an elephant in musth can be as much as 60 times greater than in the same elephant at other times. Scientific investigation of musth is problematic because during musth even elephants that are otherwise placid may try to kill humans. This also requires bull elephants to have more space whether in captivity or in the wild. Because space is limited in captivity, especially in circus during travel, this would present a problem if a bull elephant goes into musth. Therefore most circus bull elephants are castrated. I am including the links that I use to get statistics on elephant births and deaths. The data is collected and reported by the American Public University
This is the high level link that provides births and deaths and as well as a breakdown of cause of death http://www.elephant.se/ and this is the link to summary and statistics that breaks downs deaths by various criteria http://www.elephant.se/elephant_database.php?open=Elephant%20database
I hope you find this helpful.
I don’t think a ban on pets and farm animals should be of concern because these animals are considered domestic and not captive. Dogs, cats, cows, goats, sheep etc, are regarding as domestic breeds and livestock in the United States. Almost all animals used in the circus are wild, not domestic. I mentioned this in a differnt post, but will explain again. Elephants are still regarded as wild, exotic animals because they are not indigenous to the United States. So even captive bred elephants are still wild animals. Even though the circus elephant is no longer in the wild, this does not make the elephant domestic, it makes the elephant captive. A wild elephant in a circus, zoo and even the 2 best sanctuaries in the country are still captive wild animals, not domestic. So the concern for our pets and farm animals being banned should not be a perceived threat.
And just one side note, wild elephants have no natural predators (human beings are considered unnatural predators because elephants are not preyed upon for human survival, but rather for poaching – the definition of predator changes in this case). Elephants calves are occassionally successfully preyed upon by lions and tigers because they are small enough to be captured by the felines. But with the protection of the herd, this seldom happens.
diana hensley, you should not even be allowed to make a comment on here as i know for a fact that you have never in your life even been to a circus because if you had there is know way in the world you would agree with becky.
and anmimals have a easy life in the wild??? think they have a whole lot better care and even food and the lucky ones are the ones in the zoo or the circus
if you ever have really been around circus animals I think they enjoy the preforming and like us if they didn’t they would not be in the acts
Well Karina its hard to change someone that has been brain washed by the AR agenda
and I will always think of a animal as a animal not as human
but they work the same as we do for a privlige of a easier or better life
Ned, you are a disgusting human being, that is all I can say. How dare you say that circus animals have a better life than we do? Also, animal rights activists do not have their brain washed you moron, it is precisely because we are very well informed about animal cruelty that we became animal activists. But before that, we all loved animals, a love you are totally unaware of.
Carla you just lost all your reputation with the name calling its a poor way to get your point across
and as along as this is a open discussion I have the right the same as you to express mine
as for abuse of animals I will be the first to stand aginst that but I think the use of the word abuse has been over extended as with many other words that the AR people love to use
and yes I do believe a animal in a circus is better cared for than the people in the show
your comments do show a sign of igorance that may be you could correct
why is it that whenever anyone mentions the term ‘animal rights’ all the pro caps get all bent outta shape and try to convince others that anyone who believes in animal rights is a nutjob! what exactly constitutes an animal rights activist anyways? because if pro caps think that anyone who speaks up for animals is an activist, you really need to do some research. Me personally, Im a realist, Im also a canine behaviourist, I have letters after my name through human psychology woohoo…yes, that means I can read most of you in here like a book, “whenever someone feels threatened in their own beliefs their first instance is to attack”…..pretty much covers all the pro cap, self righteous, ignoramuses who’s minds are so closed I’m surprized they still function. And Im still waiting for one….any one…of the pro caps to explain to me what exactly is going on in the videos Ive posted. Go on, please, educate me!!!!
Circus animals do not enjoy this. They enjoy being free and unfortunately, it is a circle of life. And as for if they ‘didn’t, they would not be in the acts’ comment, they do not have a choice. That is the whole entire point. Did you talk to the animals? Did they tell you that they like doing this? No, I don’t think so.
There have been proper scientific studies in the past and recently that prove animals in circuses do not suffer or show stress during transport, training and performing. Where as anti circus propaganda is based on opinion and the small majority of people who don’t care for there animals.
We should not be banning good circuses and animal trainers who show good animal handling and husbandry, but supporting them as they provide much needed havens for wild animals. Look at the bigger picture, in the next 20 years there will no longer be a wilderness big enough to support the present wild population of polar bears, every year thousands of African elephants are culled for farm land and for the same reason mountain gorillas are being pushed further up the mountains where the air is thinner and there is less vegetation. How long do they have left? Many circuses and animal trainers dedicate their whole lives to their animals. As do I, after my education I decided to join the family business because I love the animals and know that our animals are content. We have been caring for all sorts of exotic animals for the last 40 years. I am very proud of the fact that we have bred 11 generations of lions and 8 generations of rare indian tigers so far, we are showing proper hands on dedication to caring for wild animals.
I think it is uneducated and almost a form of racism to consider that all circuses and circus people are barbaric and cruel. also if you honestly think the only way to train an animal is through pain and terror as the “anti’s” would put it, then for one I wouldn’t want to be an animal belonging to you and secondly you obviously know very little about training animals.
Oh for god’s sake. What scientific studies prove this? Would you like to live underwater your whole entire life? Or live in a cage? Would you like that Alexander? those things are not your natural habitat and nor is a circus for an animal. Proud of breeding tigers? They are meant to be in the wild. What is the name of your circus???? Perhaps you should promote it and give us all free tickets to see this humane insanity????
I would like to see these studies that have proven that circus are a great place for elephants. I cannot find any links. I can find links of pusblished studies by veterinians, world renown elephant behaviorists and biologists that prove that the circus is not the place for an elephant. Sadly, captive elephants DO live, on average, HALF life span of a wild elephant. This is not a made up statistic it is actually documented by American Public University (that is not run by PETA or animals rights activistis). Elephants are licensed, just like a dog, and therefore are tracked. There is no such thing as a homeless captive elephant in the United States. Here is the link that shows the United States and worldwide statistics http://www.elephant.se/elephant_database.php?open=Elephant%20database.
One more important note, I keeping reading that elephants are domestic in the United States. That is untrue. Elephants are still regarding as wild, exotic animals because they are not indigenous to the United States. Just because the circus elephant is no longer in the wild does not make the elephant domestic, it makes the elephant captive. A wild elephant in a circus, zoo and even the 2 best sanctuaries in the country are still captive wild animals, not domestic. There is a difference that is important to recognize. And finally, here are published studies that proves what happens to animal that are in captivity. Sadly, it does not seem to matter if the elephant is wild born and captured or born in captivity – the result is the same.
I can provide more if needed and I look forward to reading the studies that show how elephants thrive in the circus. I apologize, I could not find these studies anywhere. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/08/magazine/08elephant.html?pagewanted=print http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1207/s15327604jaws0903_4 (discusses stereotypic behaviors in captive elephants (head bobbing, swaying, rocking back and forth) http://www.sciencemag.org/content/suppl/2008/12/11/322.5908.1721b.DC1/SciencePodcast_081212.pdf (podcast transcribed to pdf) http://randd.defra.gov.uk/Document.aspx?Document=WC05007_7719_FRP.pdf (excellent study) http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2006/02/16/1140064206413.html (this is an interview with elephant biologist, Joyce Poole, rather than study)
You certainly know how to write an informative letter Sabine. Thumbs up. I am so glad that you took the time to write this. It is informative and productive, educational and factual. It is enlightening to read. I personally don’t feel that it matters whether PETA or another animal rights or activist group wrote something. At the end of the day, it matters what is ‘right’ and the right thing to do is to keep animals in their natural habitat. If humans would leave animals alone and not interfere, the animals already know how to keep the natural balance and cycle of life. When humans implore and impede, havoc breaks, which is, essentially what has happened in our world. Thank you again for writing such a wonderful side.
Also these further reports, written and published as hard copy, but unfortunately they may have not been uploaded to the internet.
Friend, T. H. and Bushong, D. 1996. Abstract. Stereotypic behavior in circus elephants and
the effect of “anticipation” of feeding, watering and performing. Proceedings of the 30th
International Congress of the International Society for Applied Ethology 14-17 August
1996, Guelph, Ontario, Canada.
Friend, T. H. 1999. Behavior of picketed circus elephants. Appl. Anim. Behav. Sci. 62:73-
88.
Toscano, M. J., T. H. Friend and C. H. Nevill. 2001 Environmental conditions and body
temperature of circus elephants transported during relatively high and low temperature
conditions. J. Elephant Managers Association 12:115-149.
Nevill, C. H. and T. H. Friend. 2003. The behavior of circus tigers during transport. Appl.
Anim. Behav. Sci. 82:329-337.
Williams, J. L. and T. H. Friend. 2003. Behavior of circus elephants during transport. J.
Elephant Managers Association 14:8-11.
Nevill, C. H., T. H. Friend and M. J. Toscano. 2004. Survey of transport environments of circus tiger (Panthera Tigris) acts. J. Zoo and Wildlife Medicine 35:167-174.
thank you, Mark, I will take a look at what I have access to on the Internet first and find out how to get a hold of the other publications you provided. One thing I did notice is that the dates of the links/publications you cite are before the dates on my links and so I believe that more recent studies might contradict some the findings in the studies you referenced. But I will still look at them – thank you very much
There should be no animals in the circus industry period. No person should be making a profit off the backs of these animals. These wonderful creatures are subjected to perform unnatural acts that lead to debilitating illnesses such as arthritis, inflamation, sore joints and muscles problems. Why is that okay to wear down an animal so you can get a paycheck? We also know that these animals suffer terribly in this environment by tasers, bullhooks, ropes, chains, boxcars for hours and hours without room to turn around. This is unacceptable. They are slaves for this industry. That is what they are. Just look into their eyes and you can see that the sparkle is simply no longer there. They are miserable and want to be set free. This applies to the big cats who are caged up daily or the horses in tight confined stalls. Just appalling and criminal. It is long overdue to release all animals from this dismal industry.
Why are you all judging Amanda when you know nothing about her or her boys?
Amanda is one of the most caring animal lovers i know. her horses aren’t just circus horses they are her boys she cares for them as if they were her children,i had the honour of spending some time with Amanda and she has ALWAYS put her horses welfare and care before anything else. none of you have any right to say these horrid things about her just because she happens to work in circuses. she has many many letters of support and compliments on how well she cares for her horses yet you feel its ok to say these things about her based on lies and false propeganda from animal rights groups that only want your money to line their own pockets its sick try looking for yourself instead of listening to rubbish. truthtube.co.uk you can see many videos of genuine circus animals and Amanda’s beautiful horses are amazing shame you want everyone to see your point of view but wont accept anyones that disagree with you. I’m proud to be your friend Amanda and keep up the amazing work you do . maybe one day these people will wake up and look for themselves when they see that the animal rights groups thery support try stopping them from having their pets
Amanda is part of the circus. Animals should not be in circuses and made to perform tricks for the sheer entertainment to amuse people. Amanda, I am highly educated. I know exactly how to care for horses, I have done so many times for many years. Using a bit enforces 300lbs of pressure on a horse’s mouth, to direct and guide the horse. It is painful all of the time. Do you ever see the fear, the eyes bulge when a horse’s head is whipped around? When people yank on the reins? People are misinformed and uneducated regarding horses. I, for one, am not and have spent 46 years around horses. Riding without a bit, only bridle. Most people do not know that. Horses will be with you the way that a dog is and they will do so with a bridle. Most horses have their spirits taken from them and are ‘trained’ to what humans want them to do, rather than the horses showing humans what they can do. There is a difference. Animal rights groups line their pockets with money????? Do you know what animal rights is? It is sticking up for animals who cannot fend for themselves. That is what we do. I have a houseful of rescues and I do not ask anyone for money and when I do animal rights education, it is all out of my own pocket. I am not a rich woman, I am a single Mother with a full time job raising my two sons on my own and sticking up for animals. We do not line our pockets and what we educate people in are truths and not lies nor propoganda. It is based on factual evidence, personal witnessing and situations. The reason I believe that people are not in agreement with Amanda is that she works in the circus and they have a bad reputation for using animals for entertainment purposes instead of allowing them to be free, as they were intended. The point of the matter is, if one is associated with circuses who use animals for entertainment, those circuses usually have tigers, elephants, etc. These animals are taken out of their natural habitat and are exotic animals and should live where home is a natural home to them. No, we don’t know you, have never met you. Perhaps you do love your horses. If people use bits on their horses, it is a form of abuse. Not many people are willing to admit that. If you are part of a circus that uses exotic animals, and use your own horses, then you are a contributing factor for animal exploitation. As for Shaun Bailey’s accusations of animal rights groups lining their pockets, I suggest that you visit our homes and see where we live. Our homes are usually housed with animals that we have rescued and are rehoming, we usually are low maintenance people who buy their clothes from thrift stores and have humble lives and housing to spend our own money on helping animals. If I was rich, as you have accused us to be, then I would be spending that money on changing the laws and using that money to support more animal rights and human rights. Question for you: where do we get money from anyways that line our pockets? I’m not sure I even understand what you are saying, because the majority of animal rights groups are VOLUNTEERS. That means NOT FOR PROFIT. Thank you.
Firstly, your saying because a bit is used and she is part of a circus that its abuse, so why are you not attacking other areas like most horse riders or horse racing ect… you dont you just use circus as an excuse to attack because its what the animal rights groups are pushing,it gives free publicity. i said the animal rights groups line their own pockets, they do nothing for animal welfare,lets take peta 97% of all animals that come into their care are euthanised they dont even own an animal shelter they make no attempt to re home them,lets take ADI they have proven to make false video heavily edited with false sound tracks to gain public sympathy thus getting donations none of which go to animal welfare thats why they recently moved from a modest office to a multi million pound offices in one oif the most expensive areas of london and again they dont even have any animal shelters thats just 2 examples. lets take RSPCA so called animal protectors,have you seen how disgusting their shelters are? 5-6 dogs in a space only fit for 1 small ish dog,if using a bit is so cruel as horse riding ect… why do they support using them and their staff willingly go horse riding? whether you like it or not these are the facts, and like most other facts supplied by so called animl rights groups these are the facts they diont want you to know. there is documented evidence to support this even RSPCA horses are kept in small inside stables Amanda’s horses have the freedon to outside pens are well fed ect… etc… something you refuse to see i bet you have never taken the time to see for yourself,if circuse have something to hide why do they allow the public to go view the animals and their living quarters after the show? and for the record all animals within circuses are 7,8,9th captive bred they have never known the wild this is their home they they know. these beautiful animals in the wild are fading fast using your philosophy these beautiful animals will be extinct very soon because theres almost no where for them to go in the wild no more. so before you continue having a go at Amanda try looking into the true facts a little deeper try truthtube.co.uk and many other places.
Dear Shaun – I am not attacking circuses. I am merely pointing out that humans have to stop using animals for entertainment purposes and exploitation. I am against horse racing, people riding horses using bits, dogfighting, animal abuse in any way, shape or form. People can always go backstage to see the animals, however, they are not there when the training and abuse exists. It is easy for people to witness animals when the trainers are prepared to do so. How do you explain so much actual footage of animals being tortured, prodded, hooked, whipped, etc to perform tricks? They are not doctored, it is actual real and live footage. There are always going to be people that abuse the system. Such as a specific person related to being CEO of the USA humane society. The Toronto Humane Society and OSPCA had problems as well. That is why volunteer people like us step in, people who do not care about money, fame or fortune. Our main focus is to educate people as best we can so that an awareness is created. People do need to be educated. What has become familiar over the past few hundreds of years does not make something right. Horse bits have been used for hundreds of years, but it doesn’t make it right. Hunting has been used for hundreds of years, but it doesn’t make it right. Certain laws in certain countries have been in command, but it doesn’t make it right – ie. a women can be stoned to death. Are you seeing where I am going with this? Animal sacrifice, animal abuse, suffering torture, takes place in many forms. As does human suffering. By creating an awareness and educating people, there is a shift in the Universe. A positive shift that can come about. Which leads to the end of exploitation of all humans and animals, which leads to non violence, which leads to peace. Isn’t that the goal? What people are trying to get at, is that Amanda is part of the circus. I do not know of one circus with animals that does not “train” animals to do tricks for the sheer pleasure and enjoyment and entertainment for humans. Most people do not know how these animals are trained. First, because not many humans could imagine that humans would whip, torture, force or prod an animal into submission to do so. When people do find out what it takes for animals to do the tricks, they are mind boggled. Also, exotic animals are used in the circus are taken out of their natural habit and do not bode well. Again, Amanda is part of the circus, although she hasn’t taken the exotic animals out of their habitat, by being part of the circus, she is contributing to the exploitation of animals. The bottom line is, stronger laws and harsher penalties for animal abuse should be in place. It is wrong for rhino poachers, elephant poachers, tiger hunters, etc etc etc to do what they do. Zoos are bandaids. Circuses are just an excuse to give an animal a longer life, but that is not even proven and with most statistic, the animals do not fare well out of their habitat. Therefore, if people would leave wild animals alone and also not force horses, etc to do tricks, the animals would fare much better. For, as you see, it is not the world or the environment or the animals themselves that have created the havoc, it is man’s interference. People don’t have to ride horses, they choose too and if they choose to, do it conscientiously. How about you put a bit in your mouth with reins attached and have someone sit on your back and yank your head in any and every direction they want to go? Does that seem silly to you? Just as silly as it seems to me, to put metal into a horses mouth and have the audicity and arrogance that it is okay. Would you do this to a dog to take it for a walk? Why is it okay to do it to a horse? Perception, interpretation is key. Morals and ethics. Comparison and understanding.
i respect others opinions but by your reply your insinuating that training is achieved by abuse using whips ,hooks ect… actually on the animals. this is simply not true the animals love doing what they do Amanda like many other trainers has never had a problem with people coming to watch how she trains if an animal didnt enjoy what it was doing it simply wouldnt do it i bet you have a pet at home say a dog and you train the dog to give you its paw then reward it with a sweet or biscuit then see its tail wag dogs only wag their tale when happy well training other animals is no different. exotic animals are NOT taken from the wild they are born in captivity 6,7,8th generation they have never known the wild hence they are living in the only home they know you can not place these back in the wild,take a look at exotics in the wild they are poached and hunted down for fun would you wanna add to that? there are companies that offer hunting holidays where you get to hunt giraffes elephants tigers and more just for fund do you want to add more tigers to that? the fact is leave exotics in the wild and they will be extinct within a few years,they are safe in captivity which includes circuses. in every industry theres always 1 or 2 cases but in over 186 years the rspca has prosecuted 800,000 cases of animal cruelty against the public but in that same time poeriod there has only been 4 cases of cruelty in circuses what does that tell you? yes there is much documented video’s ect… that have been very heavily edited even with false soundtracks and easy to discredit them as such i could name the actual video’s but i wont simply because i dont think its right to bring further names into it, another example is how PETA and ADI and others pay people to lie about animal abuse in circuses one big case recenly was thrown out of court because the witness admitted he was paid to say it, another via HSUS teaches peopl how to make mini bombs to throw at animal institutions they work closely with the alf a well known animal rights terrorist group,you then have the other cases of representatives threatening to burn the tents down with the workers and their animals inside or them poisoning the animals while the workers sleep or threatening to kill members of their family all this from the so called animal rights groups you represent. does this sound right to you? these are just a few examples.
I don’t enjoy animal tricks of any types. That includes making a dog catch a cookie on the top of his nose, as an example. It’s forcing the animal to do a trick that it doesn’t want to do. Bottom line is, if Amanda is in the circus, I’m sure that there are ‘things’ that happen to the animals that are inappropriate. Such as the bit, such as forcing animals to do tricks. etc etc. Another thing is, it’s extremely extremely sad that wild and exotic animals are born in captivity. It’s not natural to them. The same way that I believe snakes shouldn’t be kept in drawers in peoples’ homes, they should be in the forest or jungle where their natural habitat is. Any animal rights groups that make profit is going against the purpose. That, unfortunately, is ego, greed, power and money that exists on Earth that needs to be stopped. In the meantime, what the matter at hand is, what we are all trying to get our point across is, that, at some point, we have to get back to the originality that existed here on Earth, which is to live and let live. People and animals shouldn’t be forced to do things for money or the sheer entertainment for other’s satisfaction. I do not believe that there have only been 4 cases of cruelty in circuses. I do not know where you get your information from, as it is highly inaccurate. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-15675102 and http://www.astrostar.com/articles/arna.htm and http://www.starbreezes.com/11/circusabuse.html and http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/circus-faces-elephant-cruelty-case-1544655.html and http://animom.tripod.com/circus.html and http://www.mediapeta.com/peta/PDF/RinglingFactsheet.pdf. The list is endless, as are the actual footages. If circuses are ‘okay’ why are places like Greece banning them? Things don’t get banned if they are good. They are banned because there are proven continued negative things going on. Banning (prohibiting, forbidding, barring) stops events or things happening because they are usually associated with something bad happening. http://www.spca.bc.ca/welfare/campaign-issues/circuses.html – British Columbia (Canada), road side zoos in the USA, http://www.southerngazette.ca/News/2010-04-27/article-1519283/Marystown-joins-municipalities-banning-animal-circuses-in-province/1 and http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/victory-in-the-campaign-to-ban-circus-animals-2302073.html and http://www.onegreenplanet.org/news/greece-bans-animal-circuses/ . If something is being banned, it’s a signal, a red flag to look into why that particular event is being banned. If something is happening that people know about, ie. one incident of animal cruelty, there are at least 10 acts of cruelty that have gone indetected. Staggering statistics as far as I am concerned, which are shocking, saddening, and pathetic. I, for one, would rather see an animal in the wild through photograph that someone else has taken than to watch it do a trick in the circus or any other place, even a dog jumping for a cookie balanced on his nose, it’s humiliating, degrading and a high form of bullying, which is what the world is trying to avoid. It’s about respect and dignity for all living creatures. And, once again, it is rather sad that exotic and wild animals are born in captivity, when all they know is someone who makes than do tricks underneath a big tent, their feet are chained, they have to stand on their hind legs wearing little hats or jump through flaming hoops, when their natural habitat is to walk 40miles per day, laze under trees in a desert or jungle, etc. It’s no different than keeping a small turtle or goldfish in a glass bowl, forcing it to swim in circles rather than out in it’s natural body of water to swim free. Just as birds have wings to soar, it would be a shame to keep a bird in a cage and not be able to watch it fly as it catches the current of the wind hundreds of feet in the air. Now that is nature at its finest, not behind bars, chained to posts or travelling in tiny cages from dusty city to dusty city. Again, 4 cases of animal cruelty in 186 years? I fear your ‘statistics’ or gathering of correct information is incorrect. May we all live in peace rather than in exploitation of each other’s gifts.
Any one can watch me training my horses,i dont have nothing to hide..Maybe you might learn something,On how i teach my boys,and its not through cruelty or any negative method,try looking on you tube,training of the spotty boys,might give you a example….
Circus people do care for the animals. Cruelty is not involved and scientific studies say that many animals are better in circus than in zoos. Use science, not false emotions
No, you do not use science, you use emotions. That is the problem in this world. Desensitization. The animals do not enjoy this, they do it out of fear. Their spirits are broken. I hope that one day you will have the ability to feel emotion, as you obviously have a closed heart and blind eyes.
Aloson, as per the comments we are making above you seem to have the closed mind what Jolyon is saying is quite correct there is a wealth of solid scientific evidence to support animals in circuses please read my reply to your last message and maybe you should visit the site circusthetruth.com your find links to many sites and information that you will have your eyes opened to.no animals spirits are broken the animals love and respect their owners like they were their mothers go see for yout=rself see both sides of the argument not just one side it will make you think twice
Instead of believing old and outdated footage please visit:
circusthetruth.blogspot.com
Behind the scenes look at the WELFARE of Circus animals (Facebook group)
And go and visit the animals at a Circus, you won’t need to book, just turn up, the trainers will be honoured to show you how the animals are REALLY kept and trained. They will show you up to date vet records, farrier records and any other documents you wish to see regarding the welfare, including the RSPCA reports which are done every time they visit when someone makes a hoax call. Then once you’ve visited there, go and visit at least five privately owned animals and ask to see their records. And I guarantee you won’t see the same up to date results.
Regulations will work just fine.
Go and save something that really needs saving,
So why was Ringling Brothers just fined $270,000 for violations of the Animal Welfare Act? BECAUSE THEY GOT CAUGHT. Cruelty happens all the time, they are just proficient at hiding it. It’s all about the money, not the animals.
Thank you for proving that regulations can work. If an employee of the show even uses the wrong wheelbarrow the company get’s prosecuted. You can bet that those responsible will not even have the oppertunity to make the mistake again.
ok so why did ringling brothers just WIN a big case against them because the main witness admitted he was lying and was paid by a well known animal rights group to lie about seeing abuse so the case was thrown out of court?
look at the Marthe Kiley-worthington (commissioned by the RSPCA) and Radford (DEFRA) reports on this subject to get a balanced non-hysterical viewpoint, both come to the same conclusion ,there is NO scientifc evedence to supprt the claim that circus or travelling is harmful to wild or exotic animals. Further recent stress tests conducted scientifically in Germany on Circus Elephants and Lions revealed absolutely no stress as a result of travel or living conditions , these are facts not conjectjure
If there is no scientific evidence, then what do you call it when animals sway or weave in confined places? The same as a person who rocks themselves. This behavioral trait is to ‘soothe’ or comfort one’s self. Meaning any sentient. You do realize that animals are able to feel emotions too, correct? If you are looking for scientific facts, those are proven, too. Is it okay to chain an elephant or to bullhorn or whip it to submission? Is it natural for a tiger to jump through flaming hoops? Boredom, frustration and desolation. Would you keep a dog chained to a doghouse? It is illegal. It is illegal to keep exotic pets in a home in most places, therefore, why are circuses exempt? Would you do this to a human being? No. It is something called compassion. I don’t believe in making animals do tricks, be they dogs, cats, horses or tigers. Humans shouldn’t have to either. The comparison of keeping a tiger in a cage is the same correlation of keeping a hamster in a cage the size of small kleenex box. The question is, ‘is this humane’ and the answer is NO. It is of no benefit to the animal to be kept in confinement and ordered to do tricks. It is of benefit to man, but only by way of monetary gain. End the exploitation of animals for human entertainment. Stop forcing animals to do the work that people are too lazy to do.
Alison, please see the links to scientific tests and reports I posted earlier in this thread.
The pacing, swaying and weaving you mentioned has also been shown in animals in anticipation, before food, play, practice and shows. As the animals look forward to something they know is soon to come.
Re – Chains and bullhorns, I assume you mean bull-hooks and these are legal requirements of national and local health and safety laws, not usually what the show would like to use, but what they are required to use.
The size of the transport cages for Big Cats has to be a minimum to help prevent injury and are also compiant with local and national legislature. After transit these enclosures are often used as sleeping quarters for the cats, with much larger outdoor pens with stimulating “toys” and features, but all too often the cat’s will sleep most of the time and can be seen in their “bedrooms” at their choice, even though they have access the large excersise/play areas. (they are the ones that are generally lazy.
To Mark in response to mine. Yes, I meant to say bullhook rather than bullhorn, my mistake. However, if you have to ‘use’ something like this, than humans shouldn’t be using animals. Why do you USE animals in the circus? I personally don’t find their tricks entertaining, I find them humiliating for the animal. What are the animals looking forward to as you commented? Science? it is not what science proves, it is what is ethically and morally right. Would you use a hook on a dog? No. On a human? No. All in the name of science. Scientists also torture animals in laboratories, so I cannot say that their evidence with circus animals should suffice. Thereby, stating as before, morals and ethics, that is what should determine. We need more of it in this world.
Becky have you ever even been to a Circus? let alone seen how the animals are treated?, i worked on a circus 30+ years ago as an animal handler/groom i can tell you for a fact if anyone had been cruel to any animal they would have gone that day, the animals were treated better than the staff and we were treated well so much so that 30 odd years later we are still in touch.
Sorry if it’s not what people want to hear but in the time i spent working in circus and all the time’s i’ve visted backstage at at a number of circuses in the years after i have NEVER seen an animal mistreated
I have been a professional event manager for 30 years and have had the opportunity to observe circus professionals and their animals very closely, often continuously for 11 month periods.
What I see is the wonderful relationship that is possible between man and animal.
I see animals that thrive in the circus environment, and who receive positive reinforcement via hugs, petting or food rewards. Circus animal husbandry and living spaces and the exercise areas have all evolved, transportation units have evolved, today’s circuses utilize best practice, train their staff and use animals that are suitable for the circus environment.
In 30 years I have seen positive changes and real evolution in husbandry. Animal departments have policies and systems and only employ qualified and trained persons. Best practice means owners and managers must be aware of and take full responsibility for family members & employed staff’s actions in the animal department.
Untrained family members & non-qualified keepers must not be employed.
Yes, there are ongoing issues and regulators have been slow to move, but there is no valid reason to consider a ban or prohibition.
Hello circus boys and gals! I would love to share my story on all my positive circus experience with those who believe these animals are being treated cruelly. As a background reference, I’ve worked as a junior nature conservator at the Zoological Gardens of South Africa under the supervision of the NRF, so I like to think I know how exotic animals should be treated. I’ve been to two of South Africas circus’ multiple times and I’ve never seen happier, well looked after animals with heaps of confidence and enrichment. As a customer of the circus industry I urge people to realise how well kept these animals are. Keep up the good work guys.
Simone i would like to ask if you could get in touch, our association APTCA supporting circuses would like to have a further chat regarding your experience. please feel free to email me directly at: shaun.bailey@aptca.org Thank you.
Do you understand what is done to baby elephants to make them compliant to ‘train’ them to become Circus elephant slaves?
Do you understand what the Circus ‘tricks’ they are made to perform whether they are healthy or not, do to their joints?
Do you understand that if elephants are torn away from their families they are traumatized?
Do you understand that without walking up to 15 miles a day on natural surfaces in a natural environment that they end up with unhealthy feet from which they can die from?
Human ‘Enrichments’ of what? a plastic barrel to bash around while they are chained 23 hrs a day?
You should of been able to determine this from the multiple attendances of the 2 circuses in South Africa, however, if not, please research the well documented and video evidence of what happens behind the scenes and how babies are ‘trained’.
Keep up the good work of providing misrepresenting your knowledge of elephant care.
The problem with society today is to many people acting like sheep to become popular based on a 1 sided story and assuming anything from that side is gospel. The fact is unfortunately unless you go and experience and see for yourself how things really are you wouldnt not know so i urge everyone who can read this to not listen or believe what you see in the media about animal abuse,please go and see for yourself how well these amazing anaimals are loked after within the circuses you will also see how much they enjoy the stimulation they get from what they do and how happy they are to do what they do,you will then see with your own eyes the truth not the propeganda. you cant get better than actually seeing it with your own eyes
Thank you for your comments. Would really be interested in doing a quick interview with yourself on the issue of animal circuses. Would love to get your opinions on the matter. Would it be okay to contact you on your email?
i have had the great pleasure to work at a circus that had animals and i cannot put up with cruelty to them, believe me they were all treated with the greatest respect and all very happy in what they were asked to do. u carnt force an animal to do summat it dunt want.
All you have to do is look at the condition of the animals in british circuses and they is no way that anyone could say they are not looked after and treated well the hours that are spent looking after training and day to day care of each individual animal is second to non ! All animals live a long healthy happy life no different to a pet dog at home or a horse or pony living in a livery yard !! As i any cases animals can become ill but this does happen in the wild as well i think people are under the impression that wild animals are happy 24/7 never get sick injured old or die its time people woke up and learnt the truth !!
my family are in circus and i have been around animals and trainers and all i have ever seen are beautiful bonds between man and animal . i am an animal lover and i am a vegetarian and if i thought an animal would be harmed in a circus i would have done something about it long ago. where i live there are farmers and i have been physically sick at the brutality the animals were treated with . people are looking in the wrong places ! circus people have to take care of there animals very well they are being viewed constantly by thousands of people . when your a touring circus the animals you train and look after become your best friends!
Circus animals are loved and well cared for. Time and again, the allegations of the animal rights lobby are based on propaganda. There are also cases of false testimony being given in exchange for money! I am against abuse of animals and feel it should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law where it exists. It does not exist on most circuses!
So the videos of baby elephants being beaten and proded, screaming in pain is false propaganda? Someone told the elephant to scream??? You are wrong, the “allegations” are made by video footage, where is the false testimony there? That is so bull Gary
Some of the video’s being banded around the internet are set up by AR pressure groups to gain donations, but most are from many, many years ago. Often audio is “enhanced” or added later, that is false testimony, just like Mr Riders paid for testimony paid for by a group of Animal “charites” (PeTA, ADI, BFF, etc.)
The world has moved on and so has the Circus, Please take a look at the animals yourself and not assume a possition due to exagerated and outdated video’s.
Instead of banning animals from the circus, I think we should ban all those human performers who do the stunts that are by the laws of nature, supposed to be done by the animals. Something like Cirque duSilly is just an acrobatic performance and not true circus, so it’s immoral to use them as an example of “what a circus should be.” A show with all animals and no human performers would be pure circus at its finest, undiluted by humans showing off for the sake of “stealing the limelight,” so to speak. The “normal” people and self-make oddities changed the face of sideshows and took jobs away from the legitimate “freaks,” even going so far as to steal the label of “freak” itself and turn it into a negative connotation. Now they are after the performing animals as well. Keep the people in Hollywood and let the animals have their circus.
go see for yourself, see the care circus animals get, instead of standing outside with banners, and signs, look at the sheen off of the horses, the dogs eyes, you`ll see happiness, their like pets, if you illtreat a pet it wont love you or do anything for you, you wont get love back, and the love you get off a well treated animal is amazing, i know as i have pets, and they come first in our house, i am also a massive circus fan, and in all the years i followed circus, i have never seen any animal being abused, i have seen more animal abuse on the street in a week, and none in circus, animal rights should be out there stopping the abuse pets suffer, its very easy pin point a circus because of their addvertising, look at the bigger picture,
Have you been back stage? Have you been in the room when they are ‘breaking’ the animal in? Animal activists and animal rights are all encompassing. We ARE OUT THERE waging the war against every form of animal rights, wild animals, domesticated animals. The reason that you might see more animal abuse on the street is that there are more streets in the world than circuses. The point is, to end animal abuse everywhere. End of story.
I’ve been involved in the circus world since years and I ‘ve only experienced great love and respect for the animals. I have deep respect for all the good animal trainers in circuses all over the world.
Bravo !
I have followed circuses for most of my 50 years of life. I have never seen an animal in a circus that has had any marks to there bodies, they have always had plenty of food and water to hand. Yes it would be curel to take a wild animal out of there native home and put them striaght into a circus, but the animals used in circuses are breed for a life in the circus and thats all they know and if its such a bad life why do circus animals out live there wild counterparts. Some owners treat there animals beter than they treat themselves, so please if you are going to protest outside of a circus with animals please make sure that there is something to complain about. There are plenty of household pets that are mis treated and need your support more than trying to put circuses out of business. I for one had it not been for a circus would not have known what a tigar or a lion look like in realy life.
Animals have been a very important part of classical circus since classical circus as we know it, that is performing in a circular ring, began. Because of the nature of circus and by that, i mean its on public view 24/7, ALL circus animals have to be in tip top condition, as do their living and travel quarters. Most circus animals are born and bred by circuses themselves, or are surplus animals from some zoos, parks or in the case of horses, from farms, stables or studs. NO circus animal is dragged from what is left of any so called natural environment!
Despite frequent printed and tv media allegatations by so called animal rights/welfare groups against the circus industry, how many circus animal trainers or indeed circuses have actually been charged and prosecuted on any animal welfare/abuse issue??
Considering all the so called alleged abuse and neglect to circus animals, the courts should be full of circus animal trainers.
Considering Great Britain is known as a so called nation of animal lovers, then why do we have hundreds of stray and abandoned dogs and cats roaming streets or in animal shelters awaiting rehoming!
Almost daily there are reports of actual abuse or neglect to domestic pets or local wildlife reported in our newspapers or on tv.
How often is circus reported amongst all that lot.
Circus is a great place for either wild/exotic or domestic animals, they have a great active life and out live their so called true wild cousins.
If you want to know the truth about circus and its animals, go down to a circus and have a look at the animals, see the living quarters but ask questions.
Dont be ignorant to the facts.
Haveing had a association with circus animals and horses for over the past 50 years I can not say I have ever seen one treated creuly but only with love and respect
I have seen trainers go hungery so the animals could eat or get medical treatment that was needed and the relation ships between the animal and the trainer were always pleasure to observe I really think these animals have a great life and sure would not get the care and treatment if they were in the “wild”
Lets keep this bit of entertainment in our lives and appreciate what wonderful creatures these are
Ned, I don’t doubt that there are circus animal keepers that love the animal they work with and would do anything for them. Animals serve a purpose in the wild and to say that they would not get care and treatment if they were in the wild implies that people know how take care of the animal than the animal itself. Much of the care and treatment sustained in captivity would not be necessary in the wild because the conditions that create sickness and injury in captivity do not occur in the wild. Captive elephants require constant nail grooming because they walk on unnatural surface for extended periods of time. This is not required in the wild because walking on a natural surface grooms the nail. I agree that elephants and other circus animals are wonderful creatures, but they can still be wonderful and not be in circusentertainment. In fact they are just as wonderful in the wild.
Maybe we should define wild animals first most pets or animals that entertain are domistacated they would have a very hard time returning to the wild and survive
and those that are in the entertainment industry are very special ones for they enjoy what they are doing or they would not be preforming
and yes a animal in the wild has its own care like when they are they become preditors meals
Now if you do not like that kind of entertainment thats your right but why take it away from others ???
Thank you for reply, Ned, I am not trying to take anything away from others, I am just trying to share the knowledge I have regarding captive elephants and their wild counterparts. Elephants are capable of loving deeply and forming life long bonds with other living beings. In the absence of another elephant, a captive elephant will form this bond with a human caregiver, a dog or any other living being that reciprocates. In the wild, female elephants remain in their herd forever and males leave the herd at about age 10 or 11. Elephants instinctually crave companionship. A captive elephant is still considered a wild exotic animal and even the USDA, APHIS, and AWA recognize this. The elephant does not become domestic because it is not in the wild – it is simply captive. I appreciate that you have worked with circus animals and obviously cared for them deeply. But with respect to your comment “they enjoy what they are doing or they would not be performing”, perhaps you can read the following link to a letter written by Joycle Poole and Petter Granli, world renown elephant behaviorists and biologists . They have been studying elephants for the past 3o years. http://www.idausa.org/campaigns/circuses/letter_abuse.html
Head bobbing, rocking back and forth, swaying, pacing are all unnatural, stereotypic behaviors exhibited in captivity and are indicative of traumatic stress. These behaviors have never been observed or documented in the wild. And while these behaviors are not exhitibited during a performance, it is only because the animal is actively engaged in what may be perceived by the animal as either threatening or nonthreatening during the performance. Once the activity has ceased, the stereotypic behaviors return. The same occurs with human beings. These behaviors are not unique to any one species. Which animals did you work with?
YES, all animals should be banned. Animals are not on this planet for our amusement…stop beliveing everything revolved around humans..let animals live their lives in peace and with freedom!!
And God blessed them, and God said to them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.
Paru ! You better tell the SICK BASTARDS who are killing animals in Africa ‘for amusement’ !!
At least the animals in the circuses are very much loved and taken care off. Get your facts right !!!!!
Animals should definitely NOT be banned being able to see them up close is magical and the circus is the only place you can get a real insight. They are so loved it’s amazing they aren’t circus property they are family! They are looked after better than most household pets! It would be a big mistake to stop this because it would take away a huge part of culture and put the animals at risk because they are 7/8th generation and have never been in the wild. Please look at ALL the facts before casting judgement you can’t decide without knowing both sides. Animal welfare yes but animal rights are wrong!
I had a month’s placement at a circus with animals, including exotics. If you’re going to worry about welfare, you should worry about the workers, not the animals! The animals get 5 star treatment, are routinely visited by vets, inspected by local authorities, and spend much of their time in full view of the public. Meanwhile the workers have to work their socks off, every day of the year, to ensure that the highest standards of care are maintained. The animals are much better cared for than similar species in many other settings. I noticed the difference in the horses particularly as they’re an animal I’m very familiar with – circus horses work less, are better groomed and fed, enjoy more and better turnout and generally have an easier life than most horses at riding schools or in private ownership. It really annoys me when people talk about “cruel circus” then proudly state that they would never look at circus animals, because they are against it on principles. How do you know it’s cruel if you refuse to look?
Soooo true., I have worked for a touring circus with animals and they always came first..animal tent up within minutes animals out fed watered…never saw ANY act of cruelty/neglect/abuse or otherwise……..Although on a couple of occasions the Animal Rights tried to sabotage the show causing undue stress to the animals had it not been for experienced circus staff could have been a lot worse….when you add sugar to diesel tanks of lorries containg animals ie..Bengal Tigers causing them to break down during a journey!!! is this in the interests of the animals?? I think not!!
No question …. no animals in the circus! To all that believe that elephants are not abused and forced to do those ridiculous tricks, you open your eyes! Their lives are spent traveling in a small box car on a train, then chained up and then forced to perform stupid tricks for so called entertainment. Have any of you ever witnessed how they “train” a baby elephant after they separate the baby from the mother? Have you ever heard of a man by the name of Sam Haddock?
Diana, they do indeed travel, but they don’t spend their whole lives doing so. As for the size of the enclosure they travel in, it is safer for ANYTHING to travel in a confined space. This is why we have a seatbelt law and Government regulations for children to travel in an age appropriate car seat or restraint.
Travelling in a big space can cause an over balance. especially upon braking or going around a corner. In a big space there is a risk that the animal would fall over and injure itself so confined is the best way to travel.
Once the animals have reached destination, they are let out into their outdoor enclosures.
Please visit * Behind the scenes look at the WELFARE of Circus animals * on Facebook. There is lots of footage on there of the facilities these animals have.
There is also video evidence done with a Vet present to test stress levels on travelling lions. And videos of the animals being trained, and playing and displaying natural behaviour in their outdoor spaces. There is also a copy of a report of the stress test done with elephants.
Also please visit circusthetruth.blogspot.com where you will read some mind opening submissions that will put your mind at rest for the concerns you have.
Gill, I understand where you’re trying to go with the ‘seatbelt safety’ comment. I have seen the box cars that the elephants travel in …. it would compare to duct taping a child to a wall so they would not fall over and injure themselves. The box car they travel in is just that…..a metal box, no heat or air.
Diana, I’m afraid that link doesn’t work. However, if it is something to do with animal cruelty I’m afraid I won’t be able to watch it. I don’t know how anyone could stand there and film an animal getting hurt. I would be onto the Police or the RSPCA straight away and then confronting the abuser.
Could I please enquire where about you saw the ‘box car’, (what is a box car?), with elephants in as there are no longer any elephants travelling in the UK with the Circus?
If you mean a small horsebox type vehicle I will put your mind at rest to say they do have ventilation. Unless travelling in extremely cold conditions on par with the Antarctic they don’t need heating as the body heat generated is more than ample to keep them warm. Overheating would be dangerous. Similar to us when the heating in the car gets stifling and we have to turn it down.
But then if it is just a box, then somebody obviously had more money than sense to build a vehicle, strengthen the chassis to hold an elephants weight, and then not bother with ventilation and I apologise for the misunderstanding.
Did you manage to take a look at the sites I gave you? They’ll make a lovely change to the footage you have seen.
Diana you should spend a little time on a circus before making false accusation’s,
Let me start with how the 4 Baby African Elephants i worked with came to be in a UK Circus, not as you make out force ably removed from there mothers for the entertainment of the public, They came from the Wankie National Park in Zimbabwe were there mothers had been killed by poachers or as part of the cull with the money paid for them helping in the conservation of the wild elephants, which was in the 10′s of thousands of £’s the circus also paid for one of the head game wardens from Wankie to come across with them and stay to train me in how to look after them
OK lets talk about how they traveled while on the circus! not a a small box car as you say, they had a custom built 45ft trailer and as our show normally stayed for a week but sometimes for up-to 12 weeks if it was a summer season at a seaside town, and if we did have any distance to travel between towns as it did happen a few time’s we would stop somewhere and let them out to stretch there leg’s which was never a problem as we never had any trouble getting a local farmer to let us use there land we had more trouble getting away as they would phone all there kids/grandkids to come see!
Training
to tell the truth there is no real “training” it’s just a case of getting the animals to do what come’s naturally to them then reinforcing what you want with a treat much the same as people do with a dog when getting it to beg to give an example part of the elephant act was the 4 elephant lay-down side by side and on command would get up and continue with the act, but during one show one of them refused to get up the trainer had to go over to her and let her she the treat(an Apple) as he give the up command again, from that day on that became a highlight of the act where the trainer pushed/pulled the elephant with it refusing to get up until he made a big thing about giving it the Apple in that case the elephant trained the trainer!!!
to give you a general on how we got on with the animals one day i was in the pen feeding them they got boisterous and pushed against one of the gates snapping the retaining bar which flew off and hit me on the side of the head fracturing my skull when some of the other circus staff came to help they had to go get one of the other animal handlers as the elephants where trying to “protect” me and would’nt let them into the pen
So Diana before you start making accusation’s please get your fact’s right don’t just beleave what you read or hear even what i’ve written above thu it is true the best thing i can say is allways see for yourself and judge for yourself and if you do see something untoward in the way an animal is being treated then do something and report it, but please don’t just jump on the bandwagon the circus people i have worked with are true animal lovers not the sort that attend an animal rights rally in the morning then come home and kick the dog
I GET TIRED OF THE IGNORANCE OF PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT CRUELTY TO ANIMALS IN CIRCUS,,,IN CIRCUS ANIMALS ARE TREATED WITH RESPECT,,BETWEEN ANIMALS AND TRAINER’S/PRESENTER’S RESPECT IS A 2 WAY STREET,,,YOU CAN TELL IF AN ANIMAL HAS BEEN ABUSED AND I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANY ANIMAL BEING ILTREATED AT A CIRCUS,,WHAT I DO SEE IS ABUSE TO ANIMALS EVERYDAY DAY OF THE WEEK WHEN I PASS A BUTCHER SHOP AND SEE ANIMALS WHICH HAVE BEEN BORN ON FARMS FATTENED UP AND THE SLAUGHTERED TO STUFF PEOPLES MOUTHS WITH GREAT BIG LUMPS OF FLESH,,THATS RIGHT FLESH..FARMERS RAISE ANIMALS UNTIL THEY ARE AT THEIR PEAK TO SLAUGHTER AND SELL TO STORES SO PEOPLE WHO ARE OBJECTING TO ANIMALS CAN EAT FLESH,,,,SO HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT ANIMALS THAT ARE BORN IN CAPTIVITY AND LOOKED AFTER E,G FOOD WATER EXCEPTIONAL STABLES SHOULD BE BANNED FROM THE CIRCUS IS JUST PURE STUPID,,DO THESE PEOPLE HAVE NOTHING BETTER TO DO THAN CAUSE HASSEL TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE KEPT A TRADITION GOING FOR HUNDREDS OF YRS,,,WE ARE SHOWBUSSINESS WE DON’T PERSONALY PRESENT ANIMALS BUT MY FAMILY KNOW HUNDREDS OF CIRCUS PEOPLE AND HAVE YET TO SEE ONE WHO WOULD ILTREAT ANY ANIMAL,,I KNOW WHERE ANIMALS HAVE BEEN TREATED BETTER , THAN THE OWNERS THEMSELVES…..
GLADYS MCCORMACK
Is Sam Haddock the paid witness that caused the AR groups to loose the case against Ringling when the Judge saw that he was saying whatever they wanted him to?
Think they paid out something like $190,000 for his “testimony”.
i googled sam haddock , can you not read, it was 30 years age when he last worked in circus, a lot has changed since then, go and have a look for your self with a open mind to see how happy and content the animals are .they even enjoy the traveling as all the circus animals i know nearly load them selfs into the lorrys and get really exited .”get some upto date info if you want your opinion heard”
Dear Muriel,
My facts, or as you refer to them as ‘options’ are correct. Sam Haddock worked for the circus on and off from 1970 – 2005, he left at one time when he found out he had contracted tuberculosis from the elephants. Sam worked from 1997 – 2005 at the Elephant Conservation (breeding & training complex) it was there that the photos showing the torture & abuse the baby elephants were put through.
I am a descendent of a very large circus family and have had the pleasure of visiting and meeting circus staff and their animals when the public are not there I have nothing but respect for how the animals are cared for and loved if the animal rights want to something to help animals put a stop to horse racing and other sports where it is a certainty animals will be slaughtered just to happiness to a sick element of our society .Circuses care about Animals and love them.
Diana first off how would one hide a elephant??? yes they circus might have some restictive areas but in its a case of protecting the public more than protecting the animals
as the public loves to come and pet the kitty cats and then wonders why some one gets bite
also what is your difinition of abuse?? or cruelty what you might consider is only common care or procedure in taking care of the animal
and it is a proven fact the the anamals in a circus or zoo will out live the ones in the wild there has to be a reason for this also
and looking at foot age of animal care from the past is not anything like it is today we have learned new ways and better ways also safer ways also preformeing animals today are not “wild” and have had to live on their own
On the other hand just like there are bad parents there are bad trainers or presenters but eneither last long for they both get them selves in trouble
The Circus has been great family entertainment for centries now all of a sudden its not ?
I think you could really do some home work on your thinking
It is obvious the clown college that everyone on this blog has attended has taught you only how to abuse the animals and how to ‘attempt’ to cover up the abuse. I would suggest they open a course in spelling and grammar.
If I have any other thought or options I will address them to a kindergarten group of children, I’m sure it would be no different than this blog
Thank you & have a great day
Diana *mauh*
Hi diana,your opinions are certainly interesting to read even if I disagree strongly with them.
Though I hate to be the one to tell you that picking on someone’s grammar and spelling, instead of the actual topic you’re debating is quite lame.It suggests you’ve run out of your so called “facts”.
I not going to dispute that there have never been instances of cruelty within the circus industry,but the thing that so many anti circus activists just can’t seem to comprehend is how can you use a select few cases as proof that the many thousands of people involved
I apologize as my comment accidentally posted too early.
Basically the point I can’t understand is that prejudice for the most part is frowned upon in today’s society,right?
Homophobia,racism,etc.
We understand that it inappropriate to judge someone based off a stereotype and that people should be judged as individuals.
So why is it so difficult for antis to grasp that circus people shouldn’t be stereotyped either.
That not all trainers are alike.
That not all circuses are alike.
It’s a pretty simple concept isn’t it?
Judge each circus individually and fairly.
You may be able to dredge up negative stories from the internet but why should those few unfortunate cases (if of course they are even true) cause so much strife for the many thousands of people in this industry? It isn’t fair.
Most circus animals in modern circuses live very good lives.
I stand by this.
Without wanting to stoop to your level Diana, I suggest that if you criticize other people’s grammar, you make sure that your grammar is of a higher standard than that of those you criticize.
Sam Haddock was paid $190,000 by animal rights groups for his testimony. That is why that particular case was thrown out of court by the Judge presiding over the case.
He (The Judge) asked the question “How many truly needy animals could have been helped with the $190,000 which Mr. Haddock put in his pocket? Did well meaning donators know that their donations were being given to a human being to line his pockets instead of facilities, equipment and materials to help animals? I suspect not.”
Animal abuse is wrong.
Whether that abuse takes place in an apartment, Police kennel, ranch, zoo or circus; it is wrong. However, when some mindless yob hangs his 6 month old puppy for fun, that individual should be punished – not everybody in the town who owns a dog.
Why should that not apply to the circus?
You are generalizing an entire community. Pre-judging their motifs based on a handful of grainy videos. Assuming that everybody who works in a circus abuses animals. Assuming that animals cannot possibly thrive and have a stimulating, varied life in circus. Assuming that the facilities cannot possibly be good enough to keep the animals in good health physically and psychologically. Based on what? Your own experiences with people working in a circus and your own first hand experiences of the life that animals lead in a well run circus? Of course not.
The imagery you have been digesting is horrific. It’s animal husbandry gone wrong, but it is far from typical of what goes on when the people who look after the animals a) know what they are doing and b) have a deep rooted respect and love for animals.
Diana – most circus folk speak more than one language. English is frequently not their first language as most circus folk have European connections. Written communication is often on mobile phones etc. Yes, some of us have more English education and greater communication skills. I can spell but I cant swing on a trapeze, perform double somersaults or win a Golden Clown award. Your personal comments are unfair and not deserved.
Its Interesting reading all the comments , the ones from the pro animal lobby are , despite a few grammatical errors, in the main intelligent , considerd arguments with some evidence to back them up , the other side is full of personal insults ,innuendo and basic bad manners ,
make of that what you will,
I am not an animal trainer even though most of my family were, or indeed are ,I knew from an early age that it was not my forte, I didn’t have the patience or the talent, 2 things that are vital if you want to work with animals,
I have seen a lot trainers over the years, many of them are my friends,I have only seen them sacrifice everything for their charges ,whether they be lions , tigers, elephants or whatever , they arrive at night on a new ground and before they eat or go to bed the animals are watered, fed, bedded down warm and comfortable and checked regularly,
The bottom line is their animals are a form of investment , you wouldn’t buy an expensive car and leave it to rust or hit it with a hammer , that would be stupid and these people aren’t stupid , they may not have perfect spelling or correct grammar but they are better human beings than those who terrorise, abuse, insult and demean them, most of them without ever having seen a circus performance or training session and witnessed the respect and love that exists between a good trainer and a beautiful animal
personally I prefer the company of my dog to most humans , maybe I would be a good trainer
It’s really very simple. Animals simply ‘don’t belong’ in circuses, whether they are well cared for or not. It’s not natural, it’s confining, it’s stressful. Those are all obvious for anyone to see.
When you see an elephant from a circus or a zoo, that has been confined to small spaces for years, and made to entertain audiences year after year….when you see this elephant delivered to a sanctuary with acres of land and freedom, water to splash in and new family to bond with, it will be clear that freedom is by far much more appealing to an elephant than remaining chained to a circus truck.
“They too, are created by the same loving hand of God which Created us…It is our duty to Protect Them and to promote their well-being.”—Mother Teresa.
“The thinking person must oppose all cruel customs no matter how deeply rooted in tradition or surrounded by a halo….We need a boundless ethic which includes the animals also.”—Albert Schweitzer
“Animals, as part of God’s creation, have rights which must be respected. It behooves us always to be sensitive to their needs and to the reality of their pain.”—Dr. Donald Coggan, former Archbishop of Canterbury
And God blessed them, and God said to them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and SUBDUE it: and have DOMINION over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and OVER EVERY LIVING THING that moves on the earth.
Mark, Instead of tossing that passage out there all the time as some sort of justification, you need to be able to articulate your thoughts and feelings on the subject and express how you feel. It’s easy to try to use the power of the Bible as a shield to protect yourself from being a good and compassionate person. Reading that passage does not convince me of anything that it seems you would like to convince me of. You have warped the message to fit your own believe system.
I have a response for your passage, but I would like to hear your thoughts before I respond any further. I can’t enter into a debate with you if you only put up a shield to deflect. There is no way to communicate and exchange thoughts in that way and I can’t waste my time with you.
Mark, have you read the bible? THOU SHALT NOT KILL. This means cruelty, killing, suffering, etc. I’m certain that you are familiar with one of the ten commandments. If you believe in God, God wants people to do what is ‘right’ in their hearts, not what is thought to be right in their minds or in their wallets.
The Bible is so misinterpreted. That is why the world is in so much endless chaos. Ho hum.
WONDERFUL REPLY, K. TAYLOR….I LOVE THE WAY YOU POSTED THIS. You are an amazing soul. Wonderful wonderful post. Thank you so much for posting this. I love it.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Interesting comments, I used to go to circuses were wild animals were used until I saw first hand some of the behind the scenes stuff that went on, never been to one since then. Even if you take away the horror of the abuse…even if that didnt exist, in UK, US and other countries we have this ‘policy’ for all animals, wild or domestic called the 5 Freedoms which is pure basics for their health and well being. A wild animal living ‘on the road’ is not getting those 5 freedoms, a wild animal standing on its head is not ‘normal behavior’, a wild animal begging like a domestic dog is taught to do is not ‘normal behavior’, a wild animal being chained to the ground is not normal or healthy. Elephants being shot in the street because theyve gone on a rampage is 100% avoidable elephant calves being ripped away from their mothers at a very young age is far from ‘normal’ and is psychologically damaging for both if not the entire ‘herd’.
If the only way an animal can be trained to put itself in unnatural positions and perform ‘tricks’ for the ‘sheep’ who sadly still see this as entertaining is by using bullhooks, tazors and in some cases using isolation as a punishment for not performing then thats not ‘training’ its bullying and its abuse….seriously, isnt it about time ‘we’ found something else to keep ‘us’ entertained. I find it very sad that people turn a blind eye to animal abuse in the name of entertainment.
If circuses are so good to the animals why is it in the news too often that this circus or that circuse has ‘settled out of court’ for abuse cases or are fined for animal abuse.
The day someone can show me countless videos of wild animals being trained ‘humanely’ and being housed adequately then I might just change my opinion on circuses but as of yet no one has ever been able to come up with this. In the meantime….. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9etWdQWKYE
That link is a typical video made from old, outdated and heavily edited footage. The majority of it from abroad, and also hardly any of it from the UK. There was a bear on there, from it’s surroundings obviously in the wild, and if it wasn’t in the wild then it proves that captive animals do have the freedom of the great outdoors. I also noticed some stuff from PeTA on it. Here is some more about PeTA for you.
If you only ever see the scenes from outside and what you see on the Internet then I’m afraid I can’t listen to your side of the discussion. I took the time to research, I went behind the scenes, I asked to stay for a week to see what really went on. I was impressed and totally changed my views.
It is privately owned animals that need saving, the ones who never get to see the vet, the ones who get left home all day whilst the owners are out at work. The ones who have been bought purely as it is the going trend. ‘Ohhh, let’s all go buy a Husky’, the ones who are no longer needed as the substitute baby, ‘we’ll put the Staffy in the rescue now we’re splitting up and none of us want him’.
Please go and look at the links given. You won’t change your mind, but your mind will be put at rest to see that the Freedoms are very much met. And if you don’t believe the freedoms are met, then go sue the RSPCA because they visit and give glowing reports on an extremely regular basis. They just don’t admit to it as then they’ll lose your donation.
If you have friends who have dogs, ask them how far and wide do they exercise them. Do they get the minimum they should get of a good brisk two hour walk/play. Or do they get a quick 10 minute walk around the block to go poop. And if they sit/beg/lie down/fetch ask whether they were trained with a whip and a taser, or with treats and praise. ’cause, Guess what? Training is all the same. Praise and reward.
Do you know where that infographic you posted is from? A group called Center For Consumer Freedom (CCF) made it. It’s a front group for companies like Outback Steakhouse and Philip Morris that attacks any organization that might get in the way of their profits like MADD, HSUS, NPR, even the CDC! They twist things all the time to make it seem like great organizations are corrupt or out to get you because that way they’re able to keep getting richer and richer.
So if youve seen so much humane treatment and training going on why havent you got video of it to ‘debunk’ all the horror we see? Like I said, Ive been asking pro cap people for years for this but as of yet no one has offered anything apart from ‘cute photos’ which really do not tell the story. Ive been behind the scenes myself, thats why I stopped going, didnt have a problem with circuses before then. Twice Ive lived were circuses were located for a week or two where the animals would spend most of the day couped up in cages…if someone kept their dog in a crate most of the day they would be prosecuted, they have been prosecuted.
As for the pics in the video, some of them are old pics, some are more recent, the bear ‘in the wild’ was a rescue from a circus that was a bit mental due to spending most of its life confined. The photos are from all over the world and Im pretty sure that a couple of the photos in there are of Anne being beat by her ‘carer’ which wasnt that long ago.
Im more than happy to keep an open mind just on the off chance anyone can ever produce a quality video of teaching an elephant to stand on its head or balance on one foot without using bullhooks or tazors…start to finish, when I see them all resting between shows in large replicated natural enclosures.
In the meatime I look forward to the Roberts court case in June, just sad that their hired help cant be brought back to this country to face charges….and no, I dont believe for a second that they were not aware of what was going on!!
@ jackie kelly Theres more than enough videos to prove how it really is in circuses try visiting http://www.truthtube.co.uk and see how well animals are really cared for in circuses your find a huge difference to the false edited propeganda that the animal rights groups will have you believe and at least all the video’s on there are genuine unedited video taken from real circuses and their real living conditions and welfare ect…
@Shaun Bailey, Ive seen a lot of those videos, it proves that ‘not everyone abuses the animals’, it proves that some animals get to hang out in fields sometimes, it doesnt prove that abuse doesnt happen. Whether its animal related, kid related, military related its the undercover videos that speak volumes not the planned videos where everyone knows the world is watching. I believe that many wild animal trainers in circuses, land or water circuses, care very much about the animals but that doesnt mean abuse doesnt go on, like the Roberts for example, they say they love and respect the animals, it didnt stop some nasty peice of work beating an elephant….beating an arthritic elephant on its legs, without their knowledge, and even if they never saw it first hand, as the owners of these animals they had an obligation to know what was happening, and as someone has already pointed out, if they (circus’s in general) were so good about their animal welfare policies why are they still being fined?
Video’s of elephant abuse, what are you saying? that organizations break into these places, beat the elephants so they video it and blame it on the circus owners? hardly, considering many of the videos show the faces of the abusers, they would have been busted for that a long time ago, Why is it that as soon as someone mentions ‘animal rights’ the ‘sheep’ assume it has to be PETA related and everyone is brainwashed!! Thats a myth in itself and is the usual pro-cap way of trying to convince the ignorant that they are superior and anyone that has anything to do with animal rights is nuts. I guess you dont believe that anything bad goes on in vivisection labs either.
I dont believe that Siegfried and Roy have ever abused their tigers but I know that Berrosini was done for abusing the primates he used on stage, the videos of this was not done by PETA.
firstly a lot of those videos were not taken pre planned, secondly there is scientific evidence to back them up,finally ringling won a recent court case because the person reporting so called abuse admitted being paid to lie about them, ADI falsely made that video it was a set up and there is proof to back that up including an indepth analysis of the video proving that not only was it poorly edited but also has a dubbed soundtrack over the top, 2ndly no one knew what was going on and the person carrying out the abuse was a plant by ADI and was paid to do it just to get false video to create propeganda to line their own pockets with sympathy funds nothing more. also most of the polls that claim overwhelming public support are flawed again full evidence to back that up. the list goes on so go check for real info and you can see for yourself http://www.circusthetruth.com
Whether or not animals are abused in the circus or treated like royalty in circus is not the issue. Yes, some circus animals are treated very well and some are not. People cannot dispute that they are some are not abused. The USDA confiscated 2 elephants that were being forced to perform while clearly being very sick or injured (Delhi and Ned both retired to The Elephant Sanctuary – both died, one from injuries sustained while being in the circus, the other from being weaned too soon). That said, I do believe that there are elephant keepers that form deep bonds with the elephants and do not abuse them. However, the act of confining a wild animal for human entertainment does not say much about us a country. There are several countries that do not allow wild exotic animals to perform in the circus . The act of employing circus animals by confining them ( by removing them from the wild, chaining them to a post, and housing in small box car) for the sole purpose of human entertainment is one of the most selfish acts we do today. Animals don’t perform tricks in the wild. Animals don’t sway, or bob their heads up and down or rock back and forth or pace in the wild. This is unnatural stereotypic behavior indicative of a traumatic episode. Just because they are capable of performing tricks does not make it okay and shows how arrogant we are in thinking that only human life is important. I am not an animal rights activist but I do support a ban on circus animals. We cite all types laws, guidelines standards, and hands on practices that tell us exactly just how inhumane we are allowed to be to animals before we get into trouble because their lives are not worth a much a human life. And that is a fact. There is no way to justify that this type of captivity is okay when we certainly would not do this to people.
If circus animals are treated so well, why did Ringling Bros. just get fined $270k for violations of the Animal Welfare Act? Why was Doug Terranova (he rents out animals to circuses and fairs) just fined $25k for violations of the Animal Welfare Act? Why was the Liebel Family Circus just recently charged with almost 3 dozen violations of the AWA after he had already been ordered to pay $3k for previous violations? Circus animals are not treated well. This isn’t some anti-circus propaganda, this is from the USDA.
ok KD24 if your claiming that why did Ringling recently WIN a court case that was brought against them because the only witness ADMITTED TO BEING PAID TO LIE ABOUT RINGLING by one of the animal rights groups ?
$190,000 of donations which were supposed to be helping animals were instead paid to a circus worker in exchange for his testimony against his former employers.
It’s simple, really, and Sabine (above) has it exactly right: “We cite all types of laws, guidelines, standards, and hands-on practices that tell us exactly just how inhumane we are allowed to be to animals before we get into trouble because their lives are not worth as much a human life. And that is a fact. There is no way to justify that this type of captivity is okay when we certainly would not do this to people.”
I repeat: “There is no way to justify that this type of captivity is okay when we certainly would not do this to people.”
All animals are thinking, sentient creatures – “nonhuman persons” – with undoubtedly rich emotional lives (that we can only guess at), and many come from wild families who mourn the kidnapping of their offspring and siblings no differently than people do. This is scientific fact.
There WILL come a time when this type of capture, captivity, forced confinement, training, exploitation (and often abuse), and SLAVERY of ANIMAL BEINGS will be seen to be just as wrong and reprehensible as it is now universally agreed to be for HUMAN beings.
And we do this to animals for no other reason than that we CAN, and because we imagine ourselves to better, or more intelligent, or more valuable, than they are.
This is speciesism at its most repugnant.
And it is WRONG.
And history, evolution – and eventually the LAW – will prove us right in this belief.
For those of you who like circuses so much, BY ALL MEANS give up your present lives and go and VOLUNTEER yourselves to be coerced, and trained, and beaten, and electrically-prodded, and bullhooked, and “lovingly cared for” in CIRCUSES, if you think that life is so wonderful… all for entertainment of paying idiots.
But until ANIMALS have the same right to NOT be ENSLAVED as you do to attend or not attend the circus, your insistence that this is “okay” only diminishes ALL of us, and disproves that we are the more advanced, caring, compassionate, intelligent species we like to think of ourselves as being.
Unfortunately Jack, it’s not “simple”. I apologize for a long winded reply, but no matter how strong your views are on the matter; mine are stronger because I am directly involved.
Having experienced animal “rights” activists and campaigners first hand, I tend to hear the same tired arguments again and again.
First the argument will be that animals in circuses simply have to be banned because the animals are beaten, electrocuted and stuffed into small boxes. Their lives are miserable and their life expectancy is well below what it should be. This argument – when not countered – gains a great deal of support from neutrals and animal welfarists (which is not the same as animal “rightists”). You will doubtlessly point out the videos posted by animal rights groups showing abuse and poor conditions; I will come back to that…
When it is shown that it is absolutely not necessary (rather it is counterproductive) to beat an animal during training – or at any point, and that in fact animals can thrive and have a wonderfully stimulating life in captivity, often extending their life expectancy by 100%, and that the facilities and enclosures on a well run circus can be the equal to or better than the facilities offered in other animal husbandry situations, the response often changes to a debate on morals and ethics – such as in your post. Words such as “speciesism” are invented. Activists demand that the human race should have the same ethical views that they do, at the risk of being looked down upon. They mention that the advance of animal rights are a part of “evolution”.
It’s then when things cease to be “simple”. Everybody has their own individual set of ethical views; some will call it unethical to drink cow’s milk – some will think it unethical not to. You cannot assign rights to animals (again; in my view);
The problem with animal rights is that animals are incapable of recognizing and respecting reciprocal responsibility. If left completely free, animals would habitually engage in acts that would be criminal if performed by human beings. Bears and cougars would attack (assault) people. Dogs would defecate on (vandalize) people’s lawns. A million other “criminal acts” would be perpetrated by animals, in violation of others’ rights. This leads to one of two outcomes:
1) Humans and animals would necessarily have to have different standards of behavior. Acts against persons or property that would be criminal for humans, would be allowed for animals. In other words, animals would have superior rights to humans. We’d be constantly cleaning up after the criminality of animals, and would effectively be enslaved to creatures that didn’t have a second thought to us and our rights (which undoubtably do exist). This is backward, to put it mildly.
2) To protect us from the criminal acts of animals, we’d have to “imprison” animals that “break the law.” Since animals don’t have the reasoning ability to make rational choices, most animals would eventually end up imprisoned for breaking the law. So we’d be locking up all these “freed” animals…how exactly does that respect their “rights?”
The concept of “animal rights” is an enviro-fantasy based on a misguided and ill-considered desire for animals to be happy. We have a responsibility to animals, not to mistreat them or cause them undue pain or suffering. There are, and should be, laws against animal cruelty. But to ascribe “rights” to animals goes against the concept of reciprocal responsibility which is inherent in the very definition of rights.
PeTA suggested the Jewish holocaust was no worse than the use of animals in farming, which I find only slightly more reprehensible than your comparison of animal husbandry with the human slave trade. Those views border on extremism (although again that is relative) and often do more harm than good for the aims of people who are campaigning for good animal welfare (but not rights or liberation).
The videos that you and other animal rights campaigners point to are failures. Failures by that individual human. By beating an animal, that individual is looking for a cure for the frustration that he feels when the animal doesn’t do what he wants. He is not beating the animal for the purposes of training; nothing can be learned when an animal is in a state of fear/self preservation. Therefore, animals in circuses are NOT trained by electrocutions, beatings etc. What you are seeing on some off the videos are isolated and thankfully rare cases of abuse, which unfortunately happen outside of the circus place far more frequently than within the circus community.
If I can keep my animals to a ripe old age, in excellent physical and psychological condition, with good conditions, stimulation,without abuse or neglect, with others of their kind to allow for natural procreation, and for the sake of argument I would only work with animals are not tethered, put on a leash or guided with a stick etc; the animal must follow me of it’s own free will, and if it doesn’t want to “perform”, it doesn’t perform. What objection could you have to me living and working in a circus with them?
Your objections at an ethical level, and my not having the same ethical values that you have.
It matters now the age of an animal, it matters their quality of life. The point is, the animal has no choice in being used for entertainment. Animals should have rights, because no animal should feel pain inflicted by any human being. Your views of animals and humans living together is somewhat clouded. Bears would attack people, etc. I find many flaws in your statements. And drinking milk from cows – it is not the fact they people drink the milk, it is the way that the milk is obtained. You are flitting around the real problem, which is animal abuse and cruelty, which is the topic, by writing about a myriad of other things surrounding animal abuse as a way of distracting the issue at hand and those who are reading it. Animal rights means being a voice for animals, such as they are not mistreated, etc. That is what animal rights is all about. You somehow wrote hypocritical statements regarding animal rights and your point became deluded. Again, the fact of the matter is, animal rights are just simply that. Animal rights. Standing up for someone who is unable to stand up for themselves, because humans use power (guns, electric prods, etc) to coerce animals into doing what ‘they’ want them to do. Animals do not attack unless threatened. Humans abuse animals and eploit them for their own reasons. Therefore Ingo Steibner, it is quite simple. Animal rights definition:The rights to humane treatment claimed on behalf of animals, especially the right not to be exploited for human purposes. I am not sure what you are trying to say, but again, it’s pretty simple. We are a group of people ensuring that animals are protected. End of story. Simple is as simple is.
Very well written Jack Colwell. I agree with everything that you have said.
It is a power control over being able to do what they can. Humans are ‘supposed’ to be the more intelligent species, indicating intelligence would mean compassion and doing what is ‘right’. I have yet to see the population of the world act in this manner, for then there would be world peace, the end of world hunger and the end of suffering for all sentients. I just read your final paragraph after I wrote the above. I do hope that the LAW will parallel what compassion means rather than outdated laws that are not always appropriate. It is no more a right of humans to exploit animals or fellow humans. Society today is desensitized by many means and forms of entertainment. I find it appalling for animals to do tricks and humans for that matter. No living creature should be confined, enslaved, trained, abused for any reason, ever. Perhaps one day, the people on this planet will share the same compassion for fellow humans and animals.
In the meantime, I personally will create awareness, remain an advocate for animals (and humans), change outdated barbaric laws and remain dignified in doing so. For humanity is at stake and this demands preservation and restoration. And it needs to start now.
The time has come when the world population has realized the abusive treatment all animals endure in circuses. The time has come for us to end what we began in 1793 in Philadelphia.
“…the abusive treatment all animals endure in circuses.”
The fact that you believe this displays the ignorance most people have as regards the subject of animals in circuses. One case of abuse is one case too many – but animals in circuses are no more abused than dogs and cats in animal loving homes.
To be fair, no ones denied that abuse goes on with domestic animals, usually when someone’s witnessed taking a pitchfork, spade, baseball bat or whatever else equates to a bullhook to a dog they will likely go to jail and geta fine/ ban on keeping animals of any kind, unfortunately circuses have always been governed by a different set of regulations than those that apply to pets.
It kills me that some people can happily watch footage of animals being abused or treated with cruelty but the very same people will not go and look at footage of happy, well looked after animals….is it just me that thinks it’s warped to repeatedly watch footage of animals being hurt?
Please learn the difference between the animal rights lobby and the WELFARE of animals.
And please stop trying to convince me that the animals in the Circus are abused or treated with cruelty. I have been there, done that…..and changed the way I think because I took the time to open my mind and see for myself how they really live. Happily and with their Freedoms more than adequately taken care of.
Gill those vile excuses for humans on your link, Ive had that on my fb page as well…I really hope they are found and are prosecuted but your comment on how long it will be before someone edits it to say its from a circus is childish, immature, and another pathetic attempt from a pro cap to try and discredit anyone who speaks out against animal abuse.
Have you….has anyone who Ive responded to so far given me any answer to the videos I posted above, the elephants being beaten at Ringlings, Anne being beat at the Roberts….no, seriously Im practically begging here for somene to talk me through either of those videos and tell me that its not abusive….no one will because no one can, because everyone knows it is abuse in every sense of the word…..you want to convince me and many others that abuse does not happen in circuses…then do it, explain those videos and exactly what is happening.
I think I responded to the videos in my above comments – but I’ll address them individually here. The Anne video; has anybody actually wondered WHY the groom was beating Anne the Elephant? What was the purpose? It certainly wasn’t an attempt to train the Elephant; Anne had been retired from performing for (I think) years. Certainly 2 years.
So why beat the Elephant? Was it “misbehaving”? Being aggressive? Certainly not in the videos released by ADI – it seemed that the groom was just swinging at her for the heck of at, at random times and occasions.
You may call me a skeptic, but please do research on this; just before Nicolae Nitu was filmed beating Anne, ADI posted a £10,000 reward on their website for any video evidence of animals being abused in Circuses. Nitu was not from a circus background; he had never looked after elephants before Anne, and had arrived cap in hand at Bobby Robert’s circus, and disappeared off the face of the planet BEFORE ADI released the video to the press. ADI have a history of paying witnesses; recently a US judge threw a ADI case out of court, when it was discovered that the lead witness (a former circus artist) had been paid $190,000 for his testimony. Again, please don’t take my word for it.
For arguments sake, let’s suppose that Nitu wasn’t paid by ADI. It still doesn’t explain his actions. If they weren’t money motivated, then he did it purely to be evil; he wasn’t achieving anything with Anne, he wasn’t punishing her for something she did wrong, he wasn’t trying to train her; I can only assume he was mentally deranged somehow. Either way he is a wanted man. I can assure you that if anyone from the circus community found him, he would be made to face the consequences.
Before he faced the consequences of his actions, I would love to hear what motivated him to do what he did, and how could he afford to leave the country so quickly? Why was he covering his face if he didn’t know he was being filmed? Why did ADI allow the abuse to continue for 3 months instead of informing the authorities after the first case of abuse captured on film? I suspect we will never know – but ADI are still offering cash for abuse videos, which is of course extremely tempting to a poorly paid groom.
As far as the Ringlings videos go, I’ve got to say I’m stumped. I have no explanation for what I watched – except …. surprise, surprise; they were taped by Tom Rider. Tom Rider is the aforementioned person paid $190,000 by ADI, who was described by the Federal Judge as “essentially a paid plaintiff and fact witness who lacked credibility.” I’m not saying that the Elephants were not being abused, just extremely suspicious about any evidence coming from a man who was paid a fortune by an animal rights group. Although I haven’t researched too deeply, I know that the trainers involved no longer work for Ringlings, and that Ringlings have made a $270,000 settlement with the USDA, and have agreed to “implement new training protocols for any circus employees who handle animals”.
Can you answer a few questions I have? I’d love to hear your views. You are basing your views of an entire community on the actions of a handful of sensational cases over the last 50 years. I’m taking a wild guess and estimating that there are around 100,000 people performing in, or working for a circus around the world. In the UK alone, there were over 1,100 cases of animal abuse successfully prosecuted in a court of law. That’s in 2010 alone. During it’s 200 year history there have been 3 prosecutions of people working in a circus for abusing animals.
Should people base their views of animal rights campaigners on the extremists who bomb, burn and assault their opponents? Can you explain to me the thinking behind animal rights campaigners actions when the Hall family at Darley Oaks Farm in Newchurch, Staffordshire, were targeted by animal rights extremists for breeding guinea pigs for medical research? During a six-year campaign, the remains of a family relative, Gladys Hammond, were dug up and stolen. They have never been retrieved. Should the actions of the few be allowed to taint the efforts of many genuine animal lovers? Or should we both just treat people as individuals, and judge them – and them alone – based on their actions? I think I know your answer as far as the animal rights extremists go.
@Ingo and Gill you make it sound as though Nitus treatment of Anne ‘does’nt count’ because he wasnt actually training her!! and qutie frankly, the Roberts were responsible for hiring him they should have made sure he wasnt going to abuse the animals, Anne wasnt the only animal there that he beat nor was alone in the barn, there is clearly someone else just a few yards away, why didnt that person report him to the Roberts? to the police? to the RSPCA? I have no idea why Nitu beat Anne (oh and incidentally Gill, his face can be seen as clear as day in most of the footage) Ive hired vet techs and dog trainers many times and you can bet your life if I see any abuse going on in either field they’re out of there if I can or at the very least theyre reported to the management/owners of the establishments and supervised.
Correct me if Im wrong…and Im sure you will but wasnt Bobby Roberts reported about 5 years ago for beating Anne? (I wasnt actually living in UK when this happened but from what Ive read, ) they were offered money then after a newspaper campaign and donations sent in to buy her but they turned it down, she was interviews by one of the main dailys last year saying she didnt want to part with Anne because it would ‘break her husbands heart’ and that the only place she would be able to go would be a sanctuary in US!!!! only now is Moira Roberts saying theyve been trying for 2 years to get someone to take her but to be honest thats a cop out in itself, anyone who takes on an animal.,.and it was the Roberts family who took Anne from her in Sri Lanka orignially to use in their circus, whether its a pet dog or wild animal has an obligation to give the animal a secure home and take care of its health and wellbeing for the rest of its life…not just until it stops making them money, its the typical ‘passing the buck’….theyre up in court in a few months and theyre going to try and save their own backsides by blaming other organizations for not taking Anne 2 years ago, ridiculous!!
Talking about passing the buck, so what ADI got the footage, so what if Peta gets footage, who cares who gets the footage, its a well known fact that animal abuse cases are hard to prove without visible evidence….and seriously, Ive seen this first hand over and over again over the years….when you know there is abuse going on at a facility but you cant do anything about it because its your word against theirs, the only thing left to do is to get actual footage, physical injuries are too often explained away and if there is any doubt as to how the injuries occur then nothing can be done. Does it really matter that the guy who got the Ringlings footage was a disgruntled employee, a set up even? of course not, just because you dont like his motives for getting the footage does not mean it didnt happen and does not mean it is anything other than what you can clearly see…and for Gill, no, you dont see the elephants going into the ring but to say that is not at a circus where do you think it is? you think maybe a bunch of ‘animal rights activists’ kidnapped a load of elephants, got the elephants and themselves dressed up along with all the extras in the ‘circus style clothing’ and then beat the elephants? where or what else would that be if its not a circus, apart from the fact that Ingo (your on the same side remember) states exactly who set up the videoing!!
Mary Chipperfield, her husband and elephant ‘groom’ all got prosecuted for various cruelty charges including beating a sick elephant and beating a baby chimp and they were supposed to be one of the worlds ‘greatest circuses’ along with Ringlings and Barnums….all have been prosecuted. The USDA admits they do not have the funding to investigate all the reports of abuse let alone take them court, and as for the RSPCA, I respect a lot of what they do, I know what theyre trying to do but they are bound by regulations. I know of 4 times over the last 3/4 years where they have been called out to a facility where abuse and major neglect has been reported and every time theyve been they cant do anything because all they can do is ensure that there is a roof over the animals heads and they have food and water….the fact that some of these animals had horrendous illnesses due to the worst housing Ive personally ever seen anywhere, were stabled with animals they didnt know and were injuring each other, the fact that most the containers had no water in them…it was all over the floor was irrelevant, they had water containers and thats all that mattered…and a long list of other issues that had they been in a home situation, the owners would probably be in prison right now…interesting that they have the local council in their back pocket….and theyre facts which Ive seen and know about personally!!
I understand anyone not wanting to see the horror of many of these videos, When youve seen first hand and worked with animals that have been disgustingly abused, it does, without a doubt desensitize you to at least some level of the horror but for those who dont watch it dont sit there condemning those who get the footage and continue to shoot off about how abuse is rare if it happens at all at circuses or that the footage is somehow fake….Im glad ADI are around, if it wasnt for them no one would even know about Anne, no one would know about a lot of the abuse that goes on and the general public would be no more aware of the abuse now than they were 30 years ago.
Abuse in British circuses over the last 15 years
If you cant stomach the ‘training’ go forward to about the 5 minute mark for news reports, I remember all of these when I lived in US…they wonder why elephants go mad!!! Tyke was shot over 100 times and it took about 2 hours for her to die, she had been abused by her ‘trainer’s’ for years.
jackie, Oh, I wholeheartedly agree that the footage on the Anne video was disgusting, although I must admit to not watching it past the first strike. I was more disgusted at the actions not taken after the footage had been edited before being sent out to the media. As I’ve stated repeatedly, I cannot watch footage such horrible treatment to animals, NOBODY who GENUINELY cares about Animal Welfare could. As far as the alleged Ringling’s footage, I’m afraid I can’t comment, I have never been to RIngling’s and as the footage filmed isn’t at a Circus, (it could be anywhere, but with the surrounding barriers/fencing/whatever it is I saw on the thumbnail of the video, it is definitely not at a Circus), I did not watch it and have no desire to watch it if it contains any kind of cruelty, then I cannot comment on it.
As far as the footage of Anne goes, my views are below in a copy and paste I did elsewhere on this debate, I do apologise if you thought I was being evasive, I’d assumed you would have navigated around the whole debate site and thought you would have already seen it. Anyway, here is the copy and paste, (I did edit it slightly from the original) >>>>>>
Circus Animals have all their essential annual veterinary check ups, their inoculations and worming treatments are all up to date. They have regular visits from the farrier. All this is required for them to retain their passports AND is adhered to as normal practise anyway as they sometimes travel to areas where they may be at risk of catching something from the many privately owned animals that hasn’t had all their checks.
Go and visit, unannounced, ask to see the animals facilities, ask to see a training session and ask to see all the documentation. Amongst the documentation will be reports from the RSPCA as they visit every time they get a hoax call, which is a regular occurrence as there are a lot of people out there who haven’t taken the care to research the REAL welfare. Instead believing the old, heavily edited and outdated footage, mostly from abroad and the majority of it not even from the Circus.
The case of Anne…….Here are the events.
The Animal Defence International, (ADI) set up the camera.
The ‘groom’, (who has only just started working there), is filmed beating Anne up, feeling the need to cover his face, EVEN THOUGH HE DIDN’T KNOW HE WAS BEING FILMED, WHY?. He continues this for over four weeks.
The ‘groom’ disappears.
The heavily edited video ends up in the hands of the press, instead of the Police and the RSPCA.
My questions……..
If the ADI had an inkling that Anne was being beaten, WHY, wasn’t the camera down after the first day? WHY, did they continue to let Anne get beaten? Someone with TRUE concerns for animal welfare would have had that footage straight to the relevant authorities. They wouldn’t have let the animal continue to suffer.
WHY, did the ADI have a job advertised last year, $18,000 reward for video footage showing cruelty to animals in the entertainment industry?
You do the math.
Most of these animal rights organisations are out for sympathy donations. They show footage, they get money pouring in.
Animal WELFARE is totally different to animal rights.
I’m not asking you to change your opinions on whether you like to see animals in the Circus, we all have a right to our opinions. But please do know the difference between Welfare and rights. animal rights are after all human contact with animals to cease, even down to your household pets. They want the animals to have the right to be superior over humans.
Animal Welfare is about providing the animal with all it needs to live a fulfilled life.
Please visit the group Behind the scenes look at the WELFARE of Circus animals on FB, and visit circusthetruth.blogspot.com. See some mind opening blogs and views. And see the facilities and training. If you have previously seen ‘cruel’ footage, it will warm the cockles of your heart to see the happy animals in their surroundings. Like I say, I’m not trying to make you change your mind, but it will put it at rest.
Thank you for taking the time to read this.
As a footnote, I forgot to mention that Bobby and Moira had been trying, and failing, to place Anne in a Sanctuary or Safari park for over two years, knowing it wasn’t fair on her to take her on the road, but not working, for another season because of her Arthritis, knowing it wasn’t fair on her to be the only animal at her winter quarters, thus feeling she’d be happier living amongst types of her own.
Nobody was interested in taking her on, not until she became big news and big news means big, (free), publicity.
The keeper at Longleat did praise Bobby and Moira saying they must have been doing something right for her to reach such a grand old age. Her arthritis WASN’T caused by her being in the Circus, it is a thing that will catch up with all oldies in the end.
There is a video on the Behind the scenes look at the Welfare of Circus animals, it was from the (BBC) One Show and it shows the keeper saying his bit.
Oh, I forgot to address the comment I made about the photograph being edited. My comment wasn’t childish, it was based on fact. I have evidence of such practise, some of it coming in form of a confession from a zoo worker who was offered extra money to put bars in front of their Tigers on a photoshoot, ‘to make it look like they’re in a Circus’
Diana, I seriously advise against nailing anything to a tree. I really care about animals and their welfare and hammering a nail, which would eventually go rusty, into a tree could threaten the life of the tree. Animals need trees, well we all do really, but more so animals. That tree could be home to a family of squirrels and you nailing anything to it could cause them to be homeless somewhere in the future.
If you feel frustrated can i be suggest you bang your head against a brick wall instead?
Please excuse the typo’s. The second to last sentence was meant to read …… If you feel frustrated, may I please suggest you bang your head against a brick wall instead?
Yes, one more country to add to the list. Here is a list of all the countries that have banned circuses of the past 2 years. I will try to find the actual link …
Worldwide circus bans
Posted: 27 March 2006. Updated: 29 September 2011
EUROPE
Austria: Nationwide ban on the use of wild animals in circuses.
Croatia: Nationwide ban on the use of wild animals in circuses.
Czech Republic: Nationwide ban on the use of certain species in circuses.
Denmark: Nationwide ban on the use of certain species in circuses.
Estonia: Nationwide ban on the use of wild-born animals in circuses.
Finland: Nationwide ban on the use of certain species in circuses.
Greece: Local bans on the use of animals in circuses in 30 towns.
Hungary: Nationwide ban on the use of wild caught animals in circuses, the purchase and training of elephants and primates for circus performances and the purchase, training and use of CITES (Appendix 1) listed species in circuses.
Ireland: Local bans on the use of animals in circuses in Cork and Fingal.
Poland: Nationwide ban on the use of wild-born animals in circuses.
Portugal: Nationwide ban restricting the use of great apes in circuses and the acquisition and breeding of CITES listed species.
Spain: Local bans on the use of animals in circuses in several towns including the capital cities of Catalonia (Barcelona, Tarragona, Ileida and Girona) and San Fernando de Henares (autonomous community of Madrid).
Sweden: Nationwide ban on the use of certain species in circuses.
UK: Over 200 local authorities have bans on animal circuses (more than two thirds of these ban all performing animals, the remainder ban just wild animals). A public consultation that showed that 94.5% of the public support a ban on wild animals in circuses and the Government announced that this would be pursued.
NORTH AMERICA
USA: Local bans on the use of animals in circuses in over 25 cities, located in 12 states throughout the East and West Coasts.
Canada: Local bans on the use of animals in circuses in over 20 municipal jurisdictions.
CENTRAL AND SOUTH AMERICA
Argentina: Local bans on the use of animals in circuses in over 20 cities including a ban in the city of Buenos Aires.
Bolivia: Nationwide ban on the use of wild and domestic animals in circuses.
Brazil: Local bans on the use of wild and domestic animals in circuses in the districts of Rio de Janeiro, São Paulo, Pernambuco, Paraiba, Rio Grande do Sul, Espiritu Santo, Mato Grosso do Sul, Alagos.
Chile: Local bans on the use of wild and domestic animals in circuses in the city of Santiago.
Costa Rica: Nationwide ban on the use of wild animals in circuses.
Peru: Nationwide ban on the use of wild animals in circuses.
OCEANIA
Australia: Local bans on the use of animals in circuses in several towns including Parramata and Lismore.
ASIA
India: Nationwide ban on the use of certain species in circuses.
Israel: Nationwide ban on the use of wild animals in circuses.
Singapore: Nationwide ban on the use of wild animals in circuses.
Taiwan: Nationwide prohibition on the import or export of protected wildlife for circuses.
Here is the link to all the countries that have placed a ban on the use animals in circuses http://www.ad-international.org/animals_in_entertainment/go.php?id=281&ssi=10
Animal circus supporters may have a field day with this because it is from ADI (Animal Defenders International) but this is the only organization that I know of that tracks this information. There are quite a few countries that have now imposed a ban. Almost all of Europe, Asia and South America have bans imposted. North Amierica is the ONLY continent without a single country that imposes a ban. These are just facts, no opinion posted here.
Thanks Sabine for posting this. Can add Puerto De La Cruz in Tenerife (unless I missed it), strange how they only banned land animal use though and not marine, then again, Keissling!!!!
Ringling recently paid a fine of some $270,000 to avoid going to court over their abuse of animals. $270 K is chump change for them, it’s just a cost of doing business. They claim to take care of their animals, but much documentation to the contrary exists. The ONLY way to stop the cruel abuse is to ban all circus from having any animals. They have no compassion only interest in the short term dollar. It’s been that way for a very long time. It’s time to stop it. Greece has banned all animals circuses. They are a fine example and to be congratulated for doing the right thing!
You are so right no circus should have animal, all animals should be free.
Do you not think that in this day and age of fb and YouTube that it is not feasible for things to be staged.
Animals have bin working with people for hundreds of years are you telling me that all animals have bin beaten, whipped to do what is asked of them. If any of you have pets then you know posetive reinforcement is the only way!
We can name call all we like but there a still people in this country who won’t to see animals in circuses and I’m glad for that.
Amanda looks after her animals superbly, there in stunning condition and that is way she is proud to show them off in the ring, and out side.
You have probably worked out that I’m 100 o/o behind animals in circuses but not just circuses, zoo’s safari parks and the humble pet owner.
I owne a family circus with my husband and our family and yes we have animals and they have a grate life so much so that one of the ponys with us is 23 and still going strong! He was saved from the meet man as a foal. We are veterinary inspected and are animals are on show 24/7.
At the end of the day if you don’t won’t to see it don’t come to the circus but don’t believe all you see on the web please at least come and see for your self’s, don’t be to quick to juge lest you be juged
I am being asked again and again why Amanda is being ‘attacked’. Perhaps if she hadn’t commented that circus animals have a fantastic way of life, it would not have started this rash slew of comments from people in general. It is always best to choose words wisely and correctly, otherwise, be prepared for people to question. May all animals live free as they were meant to, without cruelty and suffering enforced upon them by humans and may humans be out of harms way from humans, as well.
“May all animals live free as they were meant to, without cruelty and suffering enforced upon them by humans and may humans be out of harms way from humans, as well.”
This means no pest control, no interaction, no pets etc. What an awful world you are wishing on us all!
There is no need for comments like that and there is no need to chastise on either side. No one is pushing to such extremes suggested above and to say so is irrational discussion. But there is a difference between a termite and an elephant. There is a difference between a house cat and a tiger. Comparison of pests to wild animal is absurd (I am the one making this comparison for the sake of an example) just as comparison of domestic house cat to wild cat is absurd.
We tend to control other species based on our own size. Pests aside, if we are bigger than the other species, we can control with our size and presence. But when the species is bigger than us, that is not possible. So other measures are taken. An animal will not perform if you do not ask it to. A wild animal learns to perform after h/se has perceived that the situation is not threatening to his/her survival. After than it the performance becomes a conditioned response. There is no way to determine if the animal is enjoying performing, but the fact that the animal does not continue to perform after a performance is complete is useful information.
I am not sure how allowing an elephant or tiger to live like an elephant and tiger wishes one an awful world. And a statement like that shows only shows how this would impact us, but not the benefit of the animal.
I ask that you don’t chastise my comments because my comments are based on fact and not opinion and I cannot continue a discussion that is patronizing. Disagreeing is fine.
You are clearly missing the point. You are creating an entirely different situation than that which I was stating. No where did I state that we should not interact with animals, however that interaction should be one of respect and consideration. When animals are forced to do tricks or live in a captive environment, such as a circus, it is not the natural state of the animal. As Sabine wrote, that animals forced to do tricks do not do them outside of the time that they are asked to do them, that proves it right then and there. They don’t enjoy doing the tricks, otherwise, they would do the tricks without command.
I am wishing everyone a wonderful world where co-relation exists, where we respect species and have the intelligence and compassion to do so and not arrogance.
As Sabine said, there is no point in discussing this with you, as we are keeping to the agenda and you are creating accusations that are not true. Stay with the facts, otherwise, you negate your point.
karina,as i say get your facts right, i neither work or own a circus or any other form of entertainment that uses animals or other wise, i am just a person that has visited circuses and looked for my self and made my own opinion,not listened to other peoples opinions,GO AND LOOK FOR YOUR SELF , TILL THEN YOU CAN NOT COMMENT.
Yes ALL animals should be banned in circuses. It’s nothing but cruelty!
Hello Becky,im rather bemused and disgusted over your comments,regarding circus animals,Have you ever visited a circus with animals,have you ever taken the time to go and look at the stables,and the facilitys that Circuses can provide,As i own Horses and have been involved with all sorts of animals in My life in the circus,i really dont think you should comment until you have seen for your self,I own 6 horses,and i could never imagine my self to be cruel to my Boys..There welfare and there quality of life is paramount to me,and other animal owners in the circus…Or else why would we have them….They are a full time occupation,and at the moment mine are enjoying there time out in there paddocks,Have nice warm stables,quality food and hay,and are knee deep in shavings,what they sleep on..They have just had another visit from there farrier,and everything is made possible for there utmost care and comfort,this includes there transportation,and there stable management,which i am very proud of….Circus animals have a fantastic quality of life and are constantly monitored as we are with them all day….I hope you would have a look at the Circus the truth page on Facebook,where you can see the other side of the story……Kind Regards, Amanda and my Boys….
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Fantastic my ass. How do you teach a 10,000 lb elephant to do tricks? You beat her, shock her, whip her, chain her, and take away her spirit. If you call that “fantastic”, then I feel really sorry for your existance.
I agree Becky. Wild animal DO NOT meant to be confined and beaten for human amusement. It’s pathetic.
To Amanda, Are you saying that animals, like Elephants really like to do stupid tricks,and balancing on a ball etc.It.s not normal behaviour for such a large animal is it. It’s obviously forced and bullied into doing so. travalling around in cramped cages/lorries. You could argue that there are some good,circus owners and some bad. But their first concern os profit,no the animals.
This is such a load of crap! Making tigers jump through blazing hoops, elephants to stand on their heads and horses to endure 300lbs of bit. Amanda, my dear, you live in a dreamworld. I dare to admit that circus animals DO NOT have a fantastic quality of life. Aren’t animals’ natural habitat to live in wild places and walk 40 miles a day? Yes, but they can’t do that when they are chained and living in cities and box cars. My god woman! The reason you have them is to make money. It’s all in the name of exploitation. Horses would rather run free and through fields, not be inside a tent doing stupid tricks for paying delusional spectators and owners that live in a fantasy land.
Actually for the record i dont need animals to earn a living as you state..i am a trapeze artist,and i certainly dont need the the Responsibility an worry of having and taking care of animals properly,i would have a relatively easier life, without the Constant care and time my Horses need,Ask any Responsible and caring equine owner,All animals need This,before you start judging me and my Life,and my Horses,you need to get your facts right,When its cold are they warm enough,when its hot,are they comfortable enough,do they have enough water, do they have enough Hay,Have they been fed on time,are they clean an well groomed,have they had there feet trimmed on time,and had there teeth checked,There annual health vaccinations on the right day of the year,The list goes on,animals are not machines and are part of my Family,some thing that you obviously dont understand,all you can say is they dont belong in a circus,What you see in the ring for 5 minutes is Nothing to what goes on outside,you have never spent a day with me,or a week or a month,so dont give your opinion until you no the facts …
Can you clarify what you mean by 300 POUNDS OF BIT?? Sorry i was brought up with the queens english and although im well educated i didnt quite understand that.Perhaps if you look at footage of Alex Lacey on The dragons tour of ringlands circus,watch him,see his videos,See how he devotes his life to his animals,you might better understand How animals are trained, positive reinforcement and rewards are usually the way,I would like to state i certainly dont live in a dream world,i have Horses to take care of,something that you obviously no nothing about…Its people like you that are very well uneducated and misinformed,i certainly am not cruel to my Horses,and as an animal lover, I do everything i possibly can to ensure they have everything they need,im very proud of my animal husbandry and i am always trying to improve my standards, and my knowledge of equines,I certainly dont have to explain my self to someone that i dont no,or doesnt no me,or My life,or my beloved Horses.Some of the horrific animal cruelty that is sometimes posted on Face book here in the uk,is quite sickening,tigers with there heads cut off,and dogs being strung up,these are the things you should be stopping,and leave people alone who generally care and love there Animals….
You failed to mention in the post above that YOU are part of a circus. No wonder you claim the animals have a fantastic quality of life. And I have seen what goes on and fantastic is not the adjective I would choose. I prefer cruel, heartless, inhumane.
So you are saying that i am cruel To my horses,you have never met me,or seen my Horses,So how can you comment on something that you no nothing about,I am 5th generation Circus artiste,My family have had the pleasure of working and taking care of Animals,And i am proud to own my Boys,whose welfare and standard of care are paramount to me,I dont understand your logic on being cruel to any sort of animal,I no mine are part of my Family and i could never imagine being cruel or neglecting them,They didnt choose to be here,its up to me to give them the best life i possibly can…And im proud of the fact that, as a British Citizen,i take care and train them to the best of my capability’s,Please get your facts right,before you judge someone that you no nothing about…Kind Regards Amanda and her Horses.
HI Becky. Like Amanda I also have horses (9 in total) and I have worked in circus with them. I can assure you there is no crulety involved. My horses thrive on working and love learning new things. One of my new ones has tought himself how to lie down by watching the others. When it comes to performing you can see how much they love it and yes sometimes it doesnt go to plan but this only shows that my anaimlas are not forcedinto anything and have their own minds. My horses have top graded haylage and lovely shaving beds. They have two hard feeds a day and they get turned out daily.I will invite anyone over to come and watch a practice session and veiw my horses. I have my bhs stage two and I am currently working on my stage 3 and ptt. Many Thanks
Jema
Yes, why Becky? Why do your horses do the work and you get paid for them??????? Hmmmmmmmmmmm?????????? Animal exploitation and lazy ass people. It’s so long overdue for people to stop using animals for entertainment. It’s disgusting and so are the people involved in it. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Why Becky ,
becky digby you dont know what you are talking about,go and find out for your self, not listern to other peoples views, i am not saying all circuses in the world are great but nither are all pet owners but you can not ban something just because a few abuse it if you did there would be no pets no farm animals and no kids ,each circus should be judged on its own merits,circuses tend to breed there own animals not take them from the wild they would not survive in the wild, they are well cared for ,get the best vet care,good food, and they dont have to fight each other for it like they do in the wild ,circuses tend to keep and train all there offspring not like in zoos and wild life parks where they only keep the females alive and put the males to sleep,
You are uninformed, and cruel. DO SOME RESEARCH ! Have you seen videos of elephants chained, beaten and whipped, to preform ?
Get a grip , and watch some documentaries, or u tube.
Idiot.
Karen, As an animal lover I’m afraid I couldn’t watch any animal being mistreated. How anyone could stand there and film such an act sickens me to the core. If a genuine animal lover were to witness anything like it they would be straight on the ‘phone to the relevant authorities, then stepping in to confront the abusers. Not standing there with a camera!!
I know the Animal Defence International, (ADI), had a job advertised last year, with an $18,000 reward for video evidence of cruelty within the performing animal industry, so I can understand why it encourages people to stage footage to give to the press and media, I suppose if the money is right some people will stand there and film. Not me though. My love and concern is too genuine.
http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thepetitionsite.com%2F1%2Fthe-punishment-must-fit-the-crime%2F&h=CAQEKbQydAQEiI3gnan6ykicspkXiGyBYdcGcObhPnM4hRA
Each circus should be judged on its own merit? ANY and EVERY circus that exploits animals for human entertainment should be closed down… animals DO NOT belong in a circus, not Ringlings, Not Carson and Barnes and not yours Muriel… animals do not exist to entertain humans and they do not exist so YOU can make money from them doing tricks that in the wild would be completely foreign to them… perhaps you could try and make your living by running a circus where the performers HAVE A CHOICE!!!!
Animals are not meant to be trained. They are meant to be free. Are you missing that point??????
I would be very interested in reading the documents and archives pertaining to the zoos and sanctuaries that put male elephants to sleep and only keep the females. I am not sure how this can be since the U.S. circuses breed elephant sand a male (bull) elephant is required for this. I apologize, I just could not find any documentation on bull elephant euthanasia pertaining to zoos and sanctuaries – maybe I am not looking the right places. I do know that bull elephants are extremely dangerous to keep intact (not neutered) because they go into musth, a periodic condition in bull elephants, that characterized by highly aggressive behavior, accompanied by a large rise in reproductive hormones – testosterone levels in an elephant in musth can be as much as 60 times greater than in the same elephant at other times. Scientific investigation of musth is problematic because during musth even elephants that are otherwise placid may try to kill humans. This also requires bull elephants to have more space whether in captivity or in the wild. Because space is limited in captivity, especially in circus during travel, this would present a problem if a bull elephant goes into musth. Therefore most circus bull elephants are castrated. I am including the links that I use to get statistics on elephant births and deaths. The data is collected and reported by the American Public University
This is the high level link that provides births and deaths and as well as a breakdown of cause of death http://www.elephant.se/ and this is the link to summary and statistics that breaks downs deaths by various criteria http://www.elephant.se/elephant_database.php?open=Elephant%20database
I hope you find this helpful.
I don’t think a ban on pets and farm animals should be of concern because these animals are considered domestic and not captive. Dogs, cats, cows, goats, sheep etc, are regarding as domestic breeds and livestock in the United States. Almost all animals used in the circus are wild, not domestic. I mentioned this in a differnt post, but will explain again. Elephants are still regarded as wild, exotic animals because they are not indigenous to the United States. So even captive bred elephants are still wild animals. Even though the circus elephant is no longer in the wild, this does not make the elephant domestic, it makes the elephant captive. A wild elephant in a circus, zoo and even the 2 best sanctuaries in the country are still captive wild animals, not domestic. So the concern for our pets and farm animals being banned should not be a perceived threat.
And just one side note, wild elephants have no natural predators (human beings are considered unnatural predators because elephants are not preyed upon for human survival, but rather for poaching – the definition of predator changes in this case). Elephants calves are occassionally successfully preyed upon by lions and tigers because they are small enough to be captured by the felines. But with the protection of the herd, this seldom happens.
Becky, could not agree more!
diana hensley, you should not even be allowed to make a comment on here as i know for a fact that you have never in your life even been to a circus because if you had there is know way in the world you would agree with becky.
and anmimals have a easy life in the wild??? think they have a whole lot better care and even food and the lucky ones are the ones in the zoo or the circus
if you ever have really been around circus animals I think they enjoy the preforming and like us if they didn’t they would not be in the acts
Oh Ned you ignorance is appalling… in fact its not even worth responding to you further…
Well Karina its hard to change someone that has been brain washed by the AR agenda
and I will always think of a animal as a animal not as human
but they work the same as we do for a privlige of a easier or better life
Ned, you are a disgusting human being, that is all I can say. How dare you say that circus animals have a better life than we do? Also, animal rights activists do not have their brain washed you moron, it is precisely because we are very well informed about animal cruelty that we became animal activists. But before that, we all loved animals, a love you are totally unaware of.
Carla you just lost all your reputation with the name calling its a poor way to get your point across
and as along as this is a open discussion I have the right the same as you to express mine
as for abuse of animals I will be the first to stand aginst that but I think the use of the word abuse has been over extended as with many other words that the AR people love to use
and yes I do believe a animal in a circus is better cared for than the people in the show
your comments do show a sign of igorance that may be you could correct
why is it that whenever anyone mentions the term ‘animal rights’ all the pro caps get all bent outta shape and try to convince others that anyone who believes in animal rights is a nutjob! what exactly constitutes an animal rights activist anyways? because if pro caps think that anyone who speaks up for animals is an activist, you really need to do some research. Me personally, Im a realist, Im also a canine behaviourist, I have letters after my name through human psychology woohoo…yes, that means I can read most of you in here like a book, “whenever someone feels threatened in their own beliefs their first instance is to attack”…..pretty much covers all the pro cap, self righteous, ignoramuses who’s minds are so closed I’m surprized they still function. And Im still waiting for one….any one…of the pro caps to explain to me what exactly is going on in the videos Ive posted. Go on, please, educate me!!!!
Circus animals do not enjoy this. They enjoy being free and unfortunately, it is a circle of life. And as for if they ‘didn’t, they would not be in the acts’ comment, they do not have a choice. That is the whole entire point. Did you talk to the animals? Did they tell you that they like doing this? No, I don’t think so.
There have been proper scientific studies in the past and recently that prove animals in circuses do not suffer or show stress during transport, training and performing. Where as anti circus propaganda is based on opinion and the small majority of people who don’t care for there animals.
We should not be banning good circuses and animal trainers who show good animal handling and husbandry, but supporting them as they provide much needed havens for wild animals. Look at the bigger picture, in the next 20 years there will no longer be a wilderness big enough to support the present wild population of polar bears, every year thousands of African elephants are culled for farm land and for the same reason mountain gorillas are being pushed further up the mountains where the air is thinner and there is less vegetation. How long do they have left? Many circuses and animal trainers dedicate their whole lives to their animals. As do I, after my education I decided to join the family business because I love the animals and know that our animals are content. We have been caring for all sorts of exotic animals for the last 40 years. I am very proud of the fact that we have bred 11 generations of lions and 8 generations of rare indian tigers so far, we are showing proper hands on dedication to caring for wild animals.
I think it is uneducated and almost a form of racism to consider that all circuses and circus people are barbaric and cruel. also if you honestly think the only way to train an animal is through pain and terror as the “anti’s” would put it, then for one I wouldn’t want to be an animal belonging to you and secondly you obviously know very little about training animals.
Oh for god’s sake. What scientific studies prove this? Would you like to live underwater your whole entire life? Or live in a cage? Would you like that Alexander? those things are not your natural habitat and nor is a circus for an animal. Proud of breeding tigers? They are meant to be in the wild. What is the name of your circus???? Perhaps you should promote it and give us all free tickets to see this humane insanity????
I would like to see these studies that have proven that circus are a great place for elephants. I cannot find any links. I can find links of pusblished studies by veterinians, world renown elephant behaviorists and biologists that prove that the circus is not the place for an elephant. Sadly, captive elephants DO live, on average, HALF life span of a wild elephant. This is not a made up statistic it is actually documented by American Public University (that is not run by PETA or animals rights activistis). Elephants are licensed, just like a dog, and therefore are tracked. There is no such thing as a homeless captive elephant in the United States. Here is the link that shows the United States and worldwide statistics http://www.elephant.se/elephant_database.php?open=Elephant%20database.
One more important note, I keeping reading that elephants are domestic in the United States. That is untrue. Elephants are still regarding as wild, exotic animals because they are not indigenous to the United States. Just because the circus elephant is no longer in the wild does not make the elephant domestic, it makes the elephant captive. A wild elephant in a circus, zoo and even the 2 best sanctuaries in the country are still captive wild animals, not domestic. There is a difference that is important to recognize. And finally, here are published studies that proves what happens to animal that are in captivity. Sadly, it does not seem to matter if the elephant is wild born and captured or born in captivity – the result is the same.
I can provide more if needed and I look forward to reading the studies that show how elephants thrive in the circus. I apologize, I could not find these studies anywhere.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/08/magazine/08elephant.html?pagewanted=print
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1207/s15327604jaws0903_4 (discusses stereotypic behaviors in captive elephants (head bobbing, swaying, rocking back and forth)
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/suppl/2008/12/11/322.5908.1721b.DC1/SciencePodcast_081212.pdf (podcast transcribed to pdf)
http://randd.defra.gov.uk/Document.aspx?Document=WC05007_7719_FRP.pdf (excellent study)
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2006/02/16/1140064206413.html (this is an interview with elephant biologist, Joyce Poole, rather than study)
You certainly know how to write an informative letter Sabine. Thumbs up. I am so glad that you took the time to write this. It is informative and productive, educational and factual. It is enlightening to read. I personally don’t feel that it matters whether PETA or another animal rights or activist group wrote something. At the end of the day, it matters what is ‘right’ and the right thing to do is to keep animals in their natural habitat. If humans would leave animals alone and not interfere, the animals already know how to keep the natural balance and cycle of life. When humans implore and impede, havoc breaks, which is, essentially what has happened in our world. Thank you again for writing such a wonderful side.
@ sabineghislainezell
Try reading these studies/reports.
http://the-shg.org/Kiley_Worthington/index.htm
http://archive.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/farmanimal/welfare/documents/circus-report.pdf
http://www.elephantconservation.org/downloads/pdf/2011%20Research%20Symposium%20Program%209-11%20WS%20DO.pdf
(Particularily page 31)
Also these further reports, written and published as hard copy, but unfortunately they may have not been uploaded to the internet.
Friend, T. H. and Bushong, D. 1996. Abstract. Stereotypic behavior in circus elephants and
the effect of “anticipation” of feeding, watering and performing. Proceedings of the 30th
International Congress of the International Society for Applied Ethology 14-17 August
1996, Guelph, Ontario, Canada.
Friend, T. H. 1999. Behavior of picketed circus elephants. Appl. Anim. Behav. Sci. 62:73-
88.
Toscano, M. J., T. H. Friend and C. H. Nevill. 2001 Environmental conditions and body
temperature of circus elephants transported during relatively high and low temperature
conditions. J. Elephant Managers Association 12:115-149.
Nevill, C. H. and T. H. Friend. 2003. The behavior of circus tigers during transport. Appl.
Anim. Behav. Sci. 82:329-337.
Williams, J. L. and T. H. Friend. 2003. Behavior of circus elephants during transport. J.
Elephant Managers Association 14:8-11.
Nevill, C. H., T. H. Friend and M. J. Toscano. 2004. Survey of transport environments of circus tiger (Panthera Tigris) acts. J. Zoo and Wildlife Medicine 35:167-174.
thank you, Mark, I will take a look at what I have access to on the Internet first and find out how to get a hold of the other publications you provided. One thing I did notice is that the dates of the links/publications you cite are before the dates on my links and so I believe that more recent studies might contradict some the findings in the studies you referenced. But I will still look at them – thank you very much
I agree Becky!! And the people who buy tickets are just as bad…… no ticket sales…. no animals abused…….
No ticket sales = no animals abused…..
There should be no animals in the circus industry period. No person should be making a profit off the backs of these animals. These wonderful creatures are subjected to perform unnatural acts that lead to debilitating illnesses such as arthritis, inflamation, sore joints and muscles problems. Why is that okay to wear down an animal so you can get a paycheck? We also know that these animals suffer terribly in this environment by tasers, bullhooks, ropes, chains, boxcars for hours and hours without room to turn around. This is unacceptable. They are slaves for this industry. That is what they are. Just look into their eyes and you can see that the sparkle is simply no longer there. They are miserable and want to be set free. This applies to the big cats who are caged up daily or the horses in tight confined stalls. Just appalling and criminal. It is long overdue to release all animals from this dismal industry.
Why are you all judging Amanda when you know nothing about her or her boys?
Amanda is one of the most caring animal lovers i know. her horses aren’t just circus horses they are her boys she cares for them as if they were her children,i had the honour of spending some time with Amanda and she has ALWAYS put her horses welfare and care before anything else. none of you have any right to say these horrid things about her just because she happens to work in circuses. she has many many letters of support and compliments on how well she cares for her horses yet you feel its ok to say these things about her based on lies and false propeganda from animal rights groups that only want your money to line their own pockets its sick try looking for yourself instead of listening to rubbish. truthtube.co.uk you can see many videos of genuine circus animals and Amanda’s beautiful horses are amazing shame you want everyone to see your point of view but wont accept anyones that disagree with you. I’m proud to be your friend Amanda and keep up the amazing work you do . maybe one day these people will wake up and look for themselves when they see that the animal rights groups thery support try stopping them from having their pets
Amanda is part of the circus. Animals should not be in circuses and made to perform tricks for the sheer entertainment to amuse people. Amanda, I am highly educated. I know exactly how to care for horses, I have done so many times for many years. Using a bit enforces 300lbs of pressure on a horse’s mouth, to direct and guide the horse. It is painful all of the time. Do you ever see the fear, the eyes bulge when a horse’s head is whipped around? When people yank on the reins? People are misinformed and uneducated regarding horses. I, for one, am not and have spent 46 years around horses. Riding without a bit, only bridle. Most people do not know that. Horses will be with you the way that a dog is and they will do so with a bridle. Most horses have their spirits taken from them and are ‘trained’ to what humans want them to do, rather than the horses showing humans what they can do. There is a difference. Animal rights groups line their pockets with money????? Do you know what animal rights is? It is sticking up for animals who cannot fend for themselves. That is what we do. I have a houseful of rescues and I do not ask anyone for money and when I do animal rights education, it is all out of my own pocket. I am not a rich woman, I am a single Mother with a full time job raising my two sons on my own and sticking up for animals. We do not line our pockets and what we educate people in are truths and not lies nor propoganda. It is based on factual evidence, personal witnessing and situations. The reason I believe that people are not in agreement with Amanda is that she works in the circus and they have a bad reputation for using animals for entertainment purposes instead of allowing them to be free, as they were intended. The point of the matter is, if one is associated with circuses who use animals for entertainment, those circuses usually have tigers, elephants, etc. These animals are taken out of their natural habitat and are exotic animals and should live where home is a natural home to them. No, we don’t know you, have never met you. Perhaps you do love your horses. If people use bits on their horses, it is a form of abuse. Not many people are willing to admit that. If you are part of a circus that uses exotic animals, and use your own horses, then you are a contributing factor for animal exploitation. As for Shaun Bailey’s accusations of animal rights groups lining their pockets, I suggest that you visit our homes and see where we live. Our homes are usually housed with animals that we have rescued and are rehoming, we usually are low maintenance people who buy their clothes from thrift stores and have humble lives and housing to spend our own money on helping animals. If I was rich, as you have accused us to be, then I would be spending that money on changing the laws and using that money to support more animal rights and human rights. Question for you: where do we get money from anyways that line our pockets? I’m not sure I even understand what you are saying, because the majority of animal rights groups are VOLUNTEERS. That means NOT FOR PROFIT. Thank you.
Firstly, your saying because a bit is used and she is part of a circus that its abuse, so why are you not attacking other areas like most horse riders or horse racing ect… you dont you just use circus as an excuse to attack because its what the animal rights groups are pushing,it gives free publicity. i said the animal rights groups line their own pockets, they do nothing for animal welfare,lets take peta 97% of all animals that come into their care are euthanised they dont even own an animal shelter they make no attempt to re home them,lets take ADI they have proven to make false video heavily edited with false sound tracks to gain public sympathy thus getting donations none of which go to animal welfare thats why they recently moved from a modest office to a multi million pound offices in one oif the most expensive areas of london and again they dont even have any animal shelters thats just 2 examples. lets take RSPCA so called animal protectors,have you seen how disgusting their shelters are? 5-6 dogs in a space only fit for 1 small ish dog,if using a bit is so cruel as horse riding ect… why do they support using them and their staff willingly go horse riding? whether you like it or not these are the facts, and like most other facts supplied by so called animl rights groups these are the facts they diont want you to know. there is documented evidence to support this even RSPCA horses are kept in small inside stables Amanda’s horses have the freedon to outside pens are well fed ect… etc… something you refuse to see i bet you have never taken the time to see for yourself,if circuse have something to hide why do they allow the public to go view the animals and their living quarters after the show? and for the record all animals within circuses are 7,8,9th captive bred they have never known the wild this is their home they they know. these beautiful animals in the wild are fading fast using your philosophy these beautiful animals will be extinct very soon because theres almost no where for them to go in the wild no more. so before you continue having a go at Amanda try looking into the true facts a little deeper try truthtube.co.uk and many other places.
Dear Shaun – I am not attacking circuses. I am merely pointing out that humans have to stop using animals for entertainment purposes and exploitation. I am against horse racing, people riding horses using bits, dogfighting, animal abuse in any way, shape or form. People can always go backstage to see the animals, however, they are not there when the training and abuse exists. It is easy for people to witness animals when the trainers are prepared to do so. How do you explain so much actual footage of animals being tortured, prodded, hooked, whipped, etc to perform tricks? They are not doctored, it is actual real and live footage. There are always going to be people that abuse the system. Such as a specific person related to being CEO of the USA humane society. The Toronto Humane Society and OSPCA had problems as well. That is why volunteer people like us step in, people who do not care about money, fame or fortune. Our main focus is to educate people as best we can so that an awareness is created. People do need to be educated. What has become familiar over the past few hundreds of years does not make something right. Horse bits have been used for hundreds of years, but it doesn’t make it right. Hunting has been used for hundreds of years, but it doesn’t make it right. Certain laws in certain countries have been in command, but it doesn’t make it right – ie. a women can be stoned to death. Are you seeing where I am going with this? Animal sacrifice, animal abuse, suffering torture, takes place in many forms. As does human suffering. By creating an awareness and educating people, there is a shift in the Universe. A positive shift that can come about. Which leads to the end of exploitation of all humans and animals, which leads to non violence, which leads to peace. Isn’t that the goal? What people are trying to get at, is that Amanda is part of the circus. I do not know of one circus with animals that does not “train” animals to do tricks for the sheer pleasure and enjoyment and entertainment for humans. Most people do not know how these animals are trained. First, because not many humans could imagine that humans would whip, torture, force or prod an animal into submission to do so. When people do find out what it takes for animals to do the tricks, they are mind boggled. Also, exotic animals are used in the circus are taken out of their natural habit and do not bode well. Again, Amanda is part of the circus, although she hasn’t taken the exotic animals out of their habitat, by being part of the circus, she is contributing to the exploitation of animals. The bottom line is, stronger laws and harsher penalties for animal abuse should be in place. It is wrong for rhino poachers, elephant poachers, tiger hunters, etc etc etc to do what they do. Zoos are bandaids. Circuses are just an excuse to give an animal a longer life, but that is not even proven and with most statistic, the animals do not fare well out of their habitat. Therefore, if people would leave wild animals alone and also not force horses, etc to do tricks, the animals would fare much better. For, as you see, it is not the world or the environment or the animals themselves that have created the havoc, it is man’s interference. People don’t have to ride horses, they choose too and if they choose to, do it conscientiously. How about you put a bit in your mouth with reins attached and have someone sit on your back and yank your head in any and every direction they want to go? Does that seem silly to you? Just as silly as it seems to me, to put metal into a horses mouth and have the audicity and arrogance that it is okay. Would you do this to a dog to take it for a walk? Why is it okay to do it to a horse? Perception, interpretation is key. Morals and ethics. Comparison and understanding.
i respect others opinions but by your reply your insinuating that training is achieved by abuse using whips ,hooks ect… actually on the animals. this is simply not true the animals love doing what they do Amanda like many other trainers has never had a problem with people coming to watch how she trains if an animal didnt enjoy what it was doing it simply wouldnt do it i bet you have a pet at home say a dog and you train the dog to give you its paw then reward it with a sweet or biscuit then see its tail wag dogs only wag their tale when happy well training other animals is no different. exotic animals are NOT taken from the wild they are born in captivity 6,7,8th generation they have never known the wild hence they are living in the only home they know you can not place these back in the wild,take a look at exotics in the wild they are poached and hunted down for fun would you wanna add to that? there are companies that offer hunting holidays where you get to hunt giraffes elephants tigers and more just for fund do you want to add more tigers to that? the fact is leave exotics in the wild and they will be extinct within a few years,they are safe in captivity which includes circuses. in every industry theres always 1 or 2 cases but in over 186 years the rspca has prosecuted 800,000 cases of animal cruelty against the public but in that same time poeriod there has only been 4 cases of cruelty in circuses what does that tell you? yes there is much documented video’s ect… that have been very heavily edited even with false soundtracks and easy to discredit them as such i could name the actual video’s but i wont simply because i dont think its right to bring further names into it, another example is how PETA and ADI and others pay people to lie about animal abuse in circuses one big case recenly was thrown out of court because the witness admitted he was paid to say it, another via HSUS teaches peopl how to make mini bombs to throw at animal institutions they work closely with the alf a well known animal rights terrorist group,you then have the other cases of representatives threatening to burn the tents down with the workers and their animals inside or them poisoning the animals while the workers sleep or threatening to kill members of their family all this from the so called animal rights groups you represent. does this sound right to you? these are just a few examples.
I don’t enjoy animal tricks of any types. That includes making a dog catch a cookie on the top of his nose, as an example. It’s forcing the animal to do a trick that it doesn’t want to do. Bottom line is, if Amanda is in the circus, I’m sure that there are ‘things’ that happen to the animals that are inappropriate. Such as the bit, such as forcing animals to do tricks. etc etc. Another thing is, it’s extremely extremely sad that wild and exotic animals are born in captivity. It’s not natural to them. The same way that I believe snakes shouldn’t be kept in drawers in peoples’ homes, they should be in the forest or jungle where their natural habitat is. Any animal rights groups that make profit is going against the purpose. That, unfortunately, is ego, greed, power and money that exists on Earth that needs to be stopped. In the meantime, what the matter at hand is, what we are all trying to get our point across is, that, at some point, we have to get back to the originality that existed here on Earth, which is to live and let live. People and animals shouldn’t be forced to do things for money or the sheer entertainment for other’s satisfaction. I do not believe that there have only been 4 cases of cruelty in circuses. I do not know where you get your information from, as it is highly inaccurate. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-15675102 and http://www.astrostar.com/articles/arna.htm and http://www.starbreezes.com/11/circusabuse.html and http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/circus-faces-elephant-cruelty-case-1544655.html and http://animom.tripod.com/circus.html and http://www.mediapeta.com/peta/PDF/RinglingFactsheet.pdf. The list is endless, as are the actual footages. If circuses are ‘okay’ why are places like Greece banning them? Things don’t get banned if they are good. They are banned because there are proven continued negative things going on. Banning (prohibiting, forbidding, barring) stops events or things happening because they are usually associated with something bad happening. http://www.spca.bc.ca/welfare/campaign-issues/circuses.html – British Columbia (Canada), road side zoos in the USA, http://www.southerngazette.ca/News/2010-04-27/article-1519283/Marystown-joins-municipalities-banning-animal-circuses-in-province/1 and http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/victory-in-the-campaign-to-ban-circus-animals-2302073.html and http://www.onegreenplanet.org/news/greece-bans-animal-circuses/ . If something is being banned, it’s a signal, a red flag to look into why that particular event is being banned. If something is happening that people know about, ie. one incident of animal cruelty, there are at least 10 acts of cruelty that have gone indetected. Staggering statistics as far as I am concerned, which are shocking, saddening, and pathetic. I, for one, would rather see an animal in the wild through photograph that someone else has taken than to watch it do a trick in the circus or any other place, even a dog jumping for a cookie balanced on his nose, it’s humiliating, degrading and a high form of bullying, which is what the world is trying to avoid. It’s about respect and dignity for all living creatures. And, once again, it is rather sad that exotic and wild animals are born in captivity, when all they know is someone who makes than do tricks underneath a big tent, their feet are chained, they have to stand on their hind legs wearing little hats or jump through flaming hoops, when their natural habitat is to walk 40miles per day, laze under trees in a desert or jungle, etc. It’s no different than keeping a small turtle or goldfish in a glass bowl, forcing it to swim in circles rather than out in it’s natural body of water to swim free. Just as birds have wings to soar, it would be a shame to keep a bird in a cage and not be able to watch it fly as it catches the current of the wind hundreds of feet in the air. Now that is nature at its finest, not behind bars, chained to posts or travelling in tiny cages from dusty city to dusty city. Again, 4 cases of animal cruelty in 186 years? I fear your ‘statistics’ or gathering of correct information is incorrect. May we all live in peace rather than in exploitation of each other’s gifts.
Any one can watch me training my horses,i dont have nothing to hide..Maybe you might learn something,On how i teach my boys,and its not through cruelty or any negative method,try looking on you tube,training of the spotty boys,might give you a example….
Circus people do care for the animals. Cruelty is not involved and scientific studies say that many animals are better in circus than in zoos. Use science, not false emotions
No, you do not use science, you use emotions. That is the problem in this world. Desensitization. The animals do not enjoy this, they do it out of fear. Their spirits are broken. I hope that one day you will have the ability to feel emotion, as you obviously have a closed heart and blind eyes.
Aloson, as per the comments we are making above you seem to have the closed mind what Jolyon is saying is quite correct there is a wealth of solid scientific evidence to support animals in circuses please read my reply to your last message and maybe you should visit the site circusthetruth.com your find links to many sites and information that you will have your eyes opened to.no animals spirits are broken the animals love and respect their owners like they were their mothers go see for yout=rself see both sides of the argument not just one side it will make you think twice
Instead of believing old and outdated footage please visit:
circusthetruth.blogspot.com
Behind the scenes look at the WELFARE of Circus animals (Facebook group)
And go and visit the animals at a Circus, you won’t need to book, just turn up, the trainers will be honoured to show you how the animals are REALLY kept and trained. They will show you up to date vet records, farrier records and any other documents you wish to see regarding the welfare, including the RSPCA reports which are done every time they visit when someone makes a hoax call. Then once you’ve visited there, go and visit at least five privately owned animals and ask to see their records. And I guarantee you won’t see the same up to date results.
Regulations will work just fine.
Go and save something that really needs saving,
So why was Ringling Brothers just fined $270,000 for violations of the Animal Welfare Act? BECAUSE THEY GOT CAUGHT. Cruelty happens all the time, they are just proficient at hiding it. It’s all about the money, not the animals.
Thank you for proving that regulations can work. If an employee of the show even uses the wrong wheelbarrow the company get’s prosecuted. You can bet that those responsible will not even have the oppertunity to make the mistake again.
ok so why did ringling brothers just WIN a big case against them because the main witness admitted he was lying and was paid by a well known animal rights group to lie about seeing abuse so the case was thrown out of court?
look at the Marthe Kiley-worthington (commissioned by the RSPCA) and Radford (DEFRA) reports on this subject to get a balanced non-hysterical viewpoint, both come to the same conclusion ,there is NO scientifc evedence to supprt the claim that circus or travelling is harmful to wild or exotic animals. Further recent stress tests conducted scientifically in Germany on Circus Elephants and Lions revealed absolutely no stress as a result of travel or living conditions , these are facts not conjectjure
If there is no scientific evidence, then what do you call it when animals sway or weave in confined places? The same as a person who rocks themselves. This behavioral trait is to ‘soothe’ or comfort one’s self. Meaning any sentient. You do realize that animals are able to feel emotions too, correct? If you are looking for scientific facts, those are proven, too. Is it okay to chain an elephant or to bullhorn or whip it to submission? Is it natural for a tiger to jump through flaming hoops? Boredom, frustration and desolation. Would you keep a dog chained to a doghouse? It is illegal. It is illegal to keep exotic pets in a home in most places, therefore, why are circuses exempt? Would you do this to a human being? No. It is something called compassion. I don’t believe in making animals do tricks, be they dogs, cats, horses or tigers. Humans shouldn’t have to either. The comparison of keeping a tiger in a cage is the same correlation of keeping a hamster in a cage the size of small kleenex box. The question is, ‘is this humane’ and the answer is NO. It is of no benefit to the animal to be kept in confinement and ordered to do tricks. It is of benefit to man, but only by way of monetary gain. End the exploitation of animals for human entertainment. Stop forcing animals to do the work that people are too lazy to do.
Alison, please see the links to scientific tests and reports I posted earlier in this thread.
The pacing, swaying and weaving you mentioned has also been shown in animals in anticipation, before food, play, practice and shows. As the animals look forward to something they know is soon to come.
Re – Chains and bullhorns, I assume you mean bull-hooks and these are legal requirements of national and local health and safety laws, not usually what the show would like to use, but what they are required to use.
The size of the transport cages for Big Cats has to be a minimum to help prevent injury and are also compiant with local and national legislature. After transit these enclosures are often used as sleeping quarters for the cats, with much larger outdoor pens with stimulating “toys” and features, but all too often the cat’s will sleep most of the time and can be seen in their “bedrooms” at their choice, even though they have access the large excersise/play areas. (they are the ones that are generally lazy.
To Mark in response to mine. Yes, I meant to say bullhook rather than bullhorn, my mistake. However, if you have to ‘use’ something like this, than humans shouldn’t be using animals. Why do you USE animals in the circus? I personally don’t find their tricks entertaining, I find them humiliating for the animal. What are the animals looking forward to as you commented? Science? it is not what science proves, it is what is ethically and morally right. Would you use a hook on a dog? No. On a human? No. All in the name of science. Scientists also torture animals in laboratories, so I cannot say that their evidence with circus animals should suffice. Thereby, stating as before, morals and ethics, that is what should determine. We need more of it in this world.
Becky have you ever even been to a Circus? let alone seen how the animals are treated?, i worked on a circus 30+ years ago as an animal handler/groom i can tell you for a fact if anyone had been cruel to any animal they would have gone that day, the animals were treated better than the staff and we were treated well so much so that 30 odd years later we are still in touch.
Sorry if it’s not what people want to hear but in the time i spent working in circus and all the time’s i’ve visted backstage at at a number of circuses in the years after i have NEVER seen an animal mistreated
I have been a professional event manager for 30 years and have had the opportunity to observe circus professionals and their animals very closely, often continuously for 11 month periods.
What I see is the wonderful relationship that is possible between man and animal.
I see animals that thrive in the circus environment, and who receive positive reinforcement via hugs, petting or food rewards. Circus animal husbandry and living spaces and the exercise areas have all evolved, transportation units have evolved, today’s circuses utilize best practice, train their staff and use animals that are suitable for the circus environment.
In 30 years I have seen positive changes and real evolution in husbandry. Animal departments have policies and systems and only employ qualified and trained persons. Best practice means owners and managers must be aware of and take full responsibility for family members & employed staff’s actions in the animal department.
Untrained family members & non-qualified keepers must not be employed.
Yes, there are ongoing issues and regulators have been slow to move, but there is no valid reason to consider a ban or prohibition.
http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fm.examiner.com%2Fnassau-coliseum-in-new-york%2Fringling-brothers-circus-how-do-you-overlook-the-treatment-of-its-animals&h=OAQG2g5KCAQFx9N3Yc1OosFHNJs9m7MnN3C2iqYWb5rejjg
“Does going to the circus present honest issues about the ethical treatment of animals? The USDA seems to think so.”
Thank you Barbara.
Hello circus boys and gals! I would love to share my story on all my positive circus experience with those who believe these animals are being treated cruelly. As a background reference, I’ve worked as a junior nature conservator at the Zoological Gardens of South Africa under the supervision of the NRF, so I like to think I know how exotic animals should be treated. I’ve been to two of South Africas circus’ multiple times and I’ve never seen happier, well looked after animals with heaps of confidence and enrichment. As a customer of the circus industry I urge people to realise how well kept these animals are. Keep up the good work guys.
Simone i would like to ask if you could get in touch, our association APTCA supporting circuses would like to have a further chat regarding your experience. please feel free to email me directly at: shaun.bailey@aptca.org Thank you.
Hello Simone, Junior Nature Conservator.
Do you understand what is done to baby elephants to make them compliant to ‘train’ them to become Circus elephant slaves?
Do you understand what the Circus ‘tricks’ they are made to perform whether they are healthy or not, do to their joints?
Do you understand that if elephants are torn away from their families they are traumatized?
Do you understand that without walking up to 15 miles a day on natural surfaces in a natural environment that they end up with unhealthy feet from which they can die from?
Human ‘Enrichments’ of what? a plastic barrel to bash around while they are chained 23 hrs a day?
You should of been able to determine this from the multiple attendances of the 2 circuses in South Africa, however, if not, please research the well documented and video evidence of what happens behind the scenes and how babies are ‘trained’.
Keep up the good work of providing misrepresenting your knowledge of elephant care.
The problem with society today is to many people acting like sheep to become popular based on a 1 sided story and assuming anything from that side is gospel. The fact is unfortunately unless you go and experience and see for yourself how things really are you wouldnt not know so i urge everyone who can read this to not listen or believe what you see in the media about animal abuse,please go and see for yourself how well these amazing anaimals are loked after within the circuses you will also see how much they enjoy the stimulation they get from what they do and how happy they are to do what they do,you will then see with your own eyes the truth not the propeganda. you cant get better than actually seeing it with your own eyes
Dear Shaun,
Thank you for your comments. Would really be interested in doing a quick interview with yourself on the issue of animal circuses. Would love to get your opinions on the matter. Would it be okay to contact you on your email?
by all means you can contact me via email no problem and ill be happy to do an interview
i have had the great pleasure to work at a circus that had animals and i cannot put up with cruelty to them, believe me they were all treated with the greatest respect and all very happy in what they were asked to do. u carnt force an animal to do summat it dunt want.
All you have to do is look at the condition of the animals in british circuses and they is no way that anyone could say they are not looked after and treated well the hours that are spent looking after training and day to day care of each individual animal is second to non ! All animals live a long healthy happy life no different to a pet dog at home or a horse or pony living in a livery yard !! As i any cases animals can become ill but this does happen in the wild as well i think people are under the impression that wild animals are happy 24/7 never get sick injured old or die its time people woke up and learnt the truth !!
my family are in circus and i have been around animals and trainers and all i have ever seen are beautiful bonds between man and animal . i am an animal lover and i am a vegetarian and if i thought an animal would be harmed in a circus i would have done something about it long ago. where i live there are farmers and i have been physically sick at the brutality the animals were treated with . people are looking in the wrong places ! circus people have to take care of there animals very well they are being viewed constantly by thousands of people . when your a touring circus the animals you train and look after become your best friends!
Circus animals are loved and well cared for. Time and again, the allegations of the animal rights lobby are based on propaganda. There are also cases of false testimony being given in exchange for money! I am against abuse of animals and feel it should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law where it exists. It does not exist on most circuses!
So the videos of baby elephants being beaten and proded, screaming in pain is false propaganda? Someone told the elephant to scream??? You are wrong, the “allegations” are made by video footage, where is the false testimony there? That is so bull Gary
Some of the video’s being banded around the internet are set up by AR pressure groups to gain donations, but most are from many, many years ago. Often audio is “enhanced” or added later, that is false testimony, just like Mr Riders paid for testimony paid for by a group of Animal “charites” (PeTA, ADI, BFF, etc.)
The world has moved on and so has the Circus, Please take a look at the animals yourself and not assume a possition due to exagerated and outdated video’s.
Instead of banning animals from the circus, I think we should ban all those human performers who do the stunts that are by the laws of nature, supposed to be done by the animals. Something like Cirque duSilly is just an acrobatic performance and not true circus, so it’s immoral to use them as an example of “what a circus should be.” A show with all animals and no human performers would be pure circus at its finest, undiluted by humans showing off for the sake of “stealing the limelight,” so to speak. The “normal” people and self-make oddities changed the face of sideshows and took jobs away from the legitimate “freaks,” even going so far as to steal the label of “freak” itself and turn it into a negative connotation. Now they are after the performing animals as well. Keep the people in Hollywood and let the animals have their circus.
This makes absolutely no sense.
go see for yourself, see the care circus animals get, instead of standing outside with banners, and signs, look at the sheen off of the horses, the dogs eyes, you`ll see happiness, their like pets, if you illtreat a pet it wont love you or do anything for you, you wont get love back, and the love you get off a well treated animal is amazing, i know as i have pets, and they come first in our house, i am also a massive circus fan, and in all the years i followed circus, i have never seen any animal being abused, i have seen more animal abuse on the street in a week, and none in circus, animal rights should be out there stopping the abuse pets suffer, its very easy pin point a circus because of their addvertising, look at the bigger picture,
Have you been back stage? Have you been in the room when they are ‘breaking’ the animal in? Animal activists and animal rights are all encompassing. We ARE OUT THERE waging the war against every form of animal rights, wild animals, domesticated animals. The reason that you might see more animal abuse on the street is that there are more streets in the world than circuses. The point is, to end animal abuse everywhere. End of story.
I’ve been involved in the circus world since years and I ‘ve only experienced great love and respect for the animals. I have deep respect for all the good animal trainers in circuses all over the world.
Bravo !
I have followed circuses for most of my 50 years of life. I have never seen an animal in a circus that has had any marks to there bodies, they have always had plenty of food and water to hand. Yes it would be curel to take a wild animal out of there native home and put them striaght into a circus, but the animals used in circuses are breed for a life in the circus and thats all they know and if its such a bad life why do circus animals out live there wild counterparts. Some owners treat there animals beter than they treat themselves, so please if you are going to protest outside of a circus with animals please make sure that there is something to complain about. There are plenty of household pets that are mis treated and need your support more than trying to put circuses out of business. I for one had it not been for a circus would not have known what a tigar or a lion look like in realy life.
Animals have been a very important part of classical circus since classical circus as we know it, that is performing in a circular ring, began. Because of the nature of circus and by that, i mean its on public view 24/7, ALL circus animals have to be in tip top condition, as do their living and travel quarters. Most circus animals are born and bred by circuses themselves, or are surplus animals from some zoos, parks or in the case of horses, from farms, stables or studs. NO circus animal is dragged from what is left of any so called natural environment!
Despite frequent printed and tv media allegatations by so called animal rights/welfare groups against the circus industry, how many circus animal trainers or indeed circuses have actually been charged and prosecuted on any animal welfare/abuse issue??
Considering all the so called alleged abuse and neglect to circus animals, the courts should be full of circus animal trainers.
Considering Great Britain is known as a so called nation of animal lovers, then why do we have hundreds of stray and abandoned dogs and cats roaming streets or in animal shelters awaiting rehoming!
Almost daily there are reports of actual abuse or neglect to domestic pets or local wildlife reported in our newspapers or on tv.
How often is circus reported amongst all that lot.
Circus is a great place for either wild/exotic or domestic animals, they have a great active life and out live their so called true wild cousins.
If you want to know the truth about circus and its animals, go down to a circus and have a look at the animals, see the living quarters but ask questions.
Dont be ignorant to the facts.
Haveing had a association with circus animals and horses for over the past 50 years I can not say I have ever seen one treated creuly but only with love and respect
I have seen trainers go hungery so the animals could eat or get medical treatment that was needed and the relation ships between the animal and the trainer were always pleasure to observe I really think these animals have a great life and sure would not get the care and treatment if they were in the “wild”
Lets keep this bit of entertainment in our lives and appreciate what wonderful creatures these are
Ned, I don’t doubt that there are circus animal keepers that love the animal they work with and would do anything for them. Animals serve a purpose in the wild and to say that they would not get care and treatment if they were in the wild implies that people know how take care of the animal than the animal itself. Much of the care and treatment sustained in captivity would not be necessary in the wild because the conditions that create sickness and injury in captivity do not occur in the wild. Captive elephants require constant nail grooming because they walk on unnatural surface for extended periods of time. This is not required in the wild because walking on a natural surface grooms the nail. I agree that elephants and other circus animals are wonderful creatures, but they can still be wonderful and not be in circusentertainment. In fact they are just as wonderful in the wild.
Maybe we should define wild animals first most pets or animals that entertain are domistacated they would have a very hard time returning to the wild and survive
and those that are in the entertainment industry are very special ones for they enjoy what they are doing or they would not be preforming
and yes a animal in the wild has its own care like when they are they become preditors meals
Now if you do not like that kind of entertainment thats your right but why take it away from others ???
Thank you for reply, Ned, I am not trying to take anything away from others, I am just trying to share the knowledge I have regarding captive elephants and their wild counterparts. Elephants are capable of loving deeply and forming life long bonds with other living beings. In the absence of another elephant, a captive elephant will form this bond with a human caregiver, a dog or any other living being that reciprocates. In the wild, female elephants remain in their herd forever and males leave the herd at about age 10 or 11. Elephants instinctually crave companionship. A captive elephant is still considered a wild exotic animal and even the USDA, APHIS, and AWA recognize this. The elephant does not become domestic because it is not in the wild – it is simply captive. I appreciate that you have worked with circus animals and obviously cared for them deeply. But with respect to your comment “they enjoy what they are doing or they would not be performing”, perhaps you can read the following link to a letter written by Joycle Poole and Petter Granli, world renown elephant behaviorists and biologists . They have been studying elephants for the past 3o years. http://www.idausa.org/campaigns/circuses/letter_abuse.html
Head bobbing, rocking back and forth, swaying, pacing are all unnatural, stereotypic behaviors exhibited in captivity and are indicative of traumatic stress. These behaviors have never been observed or documented in the wild. And while these behaviors are not exhitibited during a performance, it is only because the animal is actively engaged in what may be perceived by the animal as either threatening or nonthreatening during the performance. Once the activity has ceased, the stereotypic behaviors return. The same occurs with human beings. These behaviors are not unique to any one species. Which animals did you work with?
The animals love their work with the circus and how could those who work with them help but love them?
Both of the choices that vote other than the ban should be considered “no ban.”
YES, all animals should be banned. Animals are not on this planet for our amusement…stop beliveing everything revolved around humans..let animals live their lives in peace and with freedom!!
THEY ARE NOT ON THIS PLANET TO BE EATEN SO LETS STOP THE SLAUGHTER OF ANIMALS FOR THE FLESH EATERS,,
Genesis 1:28
And God blessed them, and God said to them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.
Paru ! You better tell the SICK BASTARDS who are killing animals in Africa ‘for amusement’ !!
At least the animals in the circuses are very much loved and taken care off. Get your facts right !!!!!
Please mind your language, Mr Ranzijn.
Animals should definitely NOT be banned being able to see them up close is magical and the circus is the only place you can get a real insight. They are so loved it’s amazing they aren’t circus property they are family! They are looked after better than most household pets! It would be a big mistake to stop this because it would take away a huge part of culture and put the animals at risk because they are 7/8th generation and have never been in the wild. Please look at ALL the facts before casting judgement you can’t decide without knowing both sides. Animal welfare yes but animal rights are wrong!
I had a month’s placement at a circus with animals, including exotics. If you’re going to worry about welfare, you should worry about the workers, not the animals! The animals get 5 star treatment, are routinely visited by vets, inspected by local authorities, and spend much of their time in full view of the public. Meanwhile the workers have to work their socks off, every day of the year, to ensure that the highest standards of care are maintained. The animals are much better cared for than similar species in many other settings. I noticed the difference in the horses particularly as they’re an animal I’m very familiar with – circus horses work less, are better groomed and fed, enjoy more and better turnout and generally have an easier life than most horses at riding schools or in private ownership. It really annoys me when people talk about “cruel circus” then proudly state that they would never look at circus animals, because they are against it on principles. How do you know it’s cruel if you refuse to look?
Soooo true., I have worked for a touring circus with animals and they always came first..animal tent up within minutes animals out fed watered…never saw ANY act of cruelty/neglect/abuse or otherwise……..Although on a couple of occasions the Animal Rights tried to sabotage the show causing undue stress to the animals had it not been for experienced circus staff could have been a lot worse….when you add sugar to diesel tanks of lorries containg animals ie..Bengal Tigers causing them to break down during a journey!!! is this in the interests of the animals?? I think not!!
No question …. no animals in the circus! To all that believe that elephants are not abused and forced to do those ridiculous tricks, you open your eyes! Their lives are spent traveling in a small box car on a train, then chained up and then forced to perform stupid tricks for so called entertainment. Have any of you ever witnessed how they “train” a baby elephant after they separate the baby from the mother? Have you ever heard of a man by the name of Sam Haddock?
Diana, they do indeed travel, but they don’t spend their whole lives doing so. As for the size of the enclosure they travel in, it is safer for ANYTHING to travel in a confined space. This is why we have a seatbelt law and Government regulations for children to travel in an age appropriate car seat or restraint.
Travelling in a big space can cause an over balance. especially upon braking or going around a corner. In a big space there is a risk that the animal would fall over and injure itself so confined is the best way to travel.
Once the animals have reached destination, they are let out into their outdoor enclosures.
Please visit * Behind the scenes look at the WELFARE of Circus animals * on Facebook. There is lots of footage on there of the facilities these animals have.
There is also video evidence done with a Vet present to test stress levels on travelling lions. And videos of the animals being trained, and playing and displaying natural behaviour in their outdoor spaces. There is also a copy of a report of the stress test done with elephants.
Also please visit circusthetruth.blogspot.com where you will read some mind opening submissions that will put your mind at rest for the concerns you have.
Gill, I understand where you’re trying to go with the ‘seatbelt safety’ comment. I have seen the box cars that the elephants travel in …. it would compare to duct taping a child to a wall so they would not fall over and injure themselves. The box car they travel in is just that…..a metal box, no heat or air.
Would you please go to ~ http://youtu.beVF9rLZSW9cE
If there is any possible way you could explain what is going on in the video (other than abuse) I would be more than willing to listen
Thank you,
Diana
Diana, I’m afraid that link doesn’t work. However, if it is something to do with animal cruelty I’m afraid I won’t be able to watch it. I don’t know how anyone could stand there and film an animal getting hurt. I would be onto the Police or the RSPCA straight away and then confronting the abuser.
Could I please enquire where about you saw the ‘box car’, (what is a box car?), with elephants in as there are no longer any elephants travelling in the UK with the Circus?
If you mean a small horsebox type vehicle I will put your mind at rest to say they do have ventilation. Unless travelling in extremely cold conditions on par with the Antarctic they don’t need heating as the body heat generated is more than ample to keep them warm. Overheating would be dangerous. Similar to us when the heating in the car gets stifling and we have to turn it down.
But then if it is just a box, then somebody obviously had more money than sense to build a vehicle, strengthen the chassis to hold an elephants weight, and then not bother with ventilation and I apologise for the misunderstanding.
Did you manage to take a look at the sites I gave you? They’ll make a lovely change to the footage you have seen.
Diana you should spend a little time on a circus before making false accusation’s,
Let me start with how the 4 Baby African Elephants i worked with came to be in a UK Circus, not as you make out force ably removed from there mothers for the entertainment of the public, They came from the Wankie National Park in Zimbabwe were there mothers had been killed by poachers or as part of the cull with the money paid for them helping in the conservation of the wild elephants, which was in the 10′s of thousands of £’s the circus also paid for one of the head game wardens from Wankie to come across with them and stay to train me in how to look after them
OK lets talk about how they traveled while on the circus! not a a small box car as you say, they had a custom built 45ft trailer and as our show normally stayed for a week but sometimes for up-to 12 weeks if it was a summer season at a seaside town, and if we did have any distance to travel between towns as it did happen a few time’s we would stop somewhere and let them out to stretch there leg’s which was never a problem as we never had any trouble getting a local farmer to let us use there land we had more trouble getting away as they would phone all there kids/grandkids to come see!
Training
to tell the truth there is no real “training” it’s just a case of getting the animals to do what come’s naturally to them then reinforcing what you want with a treat much the same as people do with a dog when getting it to beg to give an example part of the elephant act was the 4 elephant lay-down side by side and on command would get up and continue with the act, but during one show one of them refused to get up the trainer had to go over to her and let her she the treat(an Apple) as he give the up command again, from that day on that became a highlight of the act where the trainer pushed/pulled the elephant with it refusing to get up until he made a big thing about giving it the Apple in that case the elephant trained the trainer!!!
to give you a general on how we got on with the animals one day i was in the pen feeding them they got boisterous and pushed against one of the gates snapping the retaining bar which flew off and hit me on the side of the head fracturing my skull when some of the other circus staff came to help they had to go get one of the other animal handlers as the elephants where trying to “protect” me and would’nt let them into the pen
So Diana before you start making accusation’s please get your fact’s right don’t just beleave what you read or hear even what i’ve written above thu it is true the best thing i can say is allways see for yourself and judge for yourself and if you do see something untoward in the way an animal is being treated then do something and report it, but please don’t just jump on the bandwagon the circus people i have worked with are true animal lovers not the sort that attend an animal rights rally in the morning then come home and kick the dog
I GET TIRED OF THE IGNORANCE OF PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT CRUELTY TO ANIMALS IN CIRCUS,,,IN CIRCUS ANIMALS ARE TREATED WITH RESPECT,,BETWEEN ANIMALS AND TRAINER’S/PRESENTER’S RESPECT IS A 2 WAY STREET,,,YOU CAN TELL IF AN ANIMAL HAS BEEN ABUSED AND I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANY ANIMAL BEING ILTREATED AT A CIRCUS,,WHAT I DO SEE IS ABUSE TO ANIMALS EVERYDAY DAY OF THE WEEK WHEN I PASS A BUTCHER SHOP AND SEE ANIMALS WHICH HAVE BEEN BORN ON FARMS FATTENED UP AND THE SLAUGHTERED TO STUFF PEOPLES MOUTHS WITH GREAT BIG LUMPS OF FLESH,,THATS RIGHT FLESH..FARMERS RAISE ANIMALS UNTIL THEY ARE AT THEIR PEAK TO SLAUGHTER AND SELL TO STORES SO PEOPLE WHO ARE OBJECTING TO ANIMALS CAN EAT FLESH,,,,SO HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT ANIMALS THAT ARE BORN IN CAPTIVITY AND LOOKED AFTER E,G FOOD WATER EXCEPTIONAL STABLES SHOULD BE BANNED FROM THE CIRCUS IS JUST PURE STUPID,,DO THESE PEOPLE HAVE NOTHING BETTER TO DO THAN CAUSE HASSEL TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE KEPT A TRADITION GOING FOR HUNDREDS OF YRS,,,WE ARE SHOWBUSSINESS WE DON’T PERSONALY PRESENT ANIMALS BUT MY FAMILY KNOW HUNDREDS OF CIRCUS PEOPLE AND HAVE YET TO SEE ONE WHO WOULD ILTREAT ANY ANIMAL,,I KNOW WHERE ANIMALS HAVE BEEN TREATED BETTER , THAN THE OWNERS THEMSELVES…..
GLADYS MCCORMACK
Google Sam Haddock
Is Sam Haddock the paid witness that caused the AR groups to loose the case against Ringling when the Judge saw that he was saying whatever they wanted him to?
Think they paid out something like $190,000 for his “testimony”.
Mark,
You must not understand how ‘GOOGLE’ works …..
…..keep trying!
i googled sam haddock , can you not read, it was 30 years age when he last worked in circus, a lot has changed since then, go and have a look for your self with a open mind to see how happy and content the animals are .they even enjoy the traveling as all the circus animals i know nearly load them selfs into the lorrys and get really exited .”get some upto date info if you want your opinion heard”
Dear Muriel,
My facts, or as you refer to them as ‘options’ are correct. Sam Haddock worked for the circus on and off from 1970 – 2005, he left at one time when he found out he had contracted tuberculosis from the elephants. Sam worked from 1997 – 2005 at the Elephant Conservation (breeding & training complex) it was there that the photos showing the torture & abuse the baby elephants were put through.
I am a descendent of a very large circus family and have had the pleasure of visiting and meeting circus staff and their animals when the public are not there I have nothing but respect for how the animals are cared for and loved if the animal rights want to something to help animals put a stop to horse racing and other sports where it is a certainty animals will be slaughtered just to happiness to a sick element of our society .Circuses care about Animals and love them.
Animal Circuses Have Nothing To Hide,,,, Go See For Youself
The circus animals do not have anything to hide, but the circus does!
Diana first off how would one hide a elephant??? yes they circus might have some restictive areas but in its a case of protecting the public more than protecting the animals
as the public loves to come and pet the kitty cats and then wonders why some one gets bite
also what is your difinition of abuse?? or cruelty what you might consider is only common care or procedure in taking care of the animal
and it is a proven fact the the anamals in a circus or zoo will out live the ones in the wild there has to be a reason for this also
and looking at foot age of animal care from the past is not anything like it is today we have learned new ways and better ways also safer ways also preformeing animals today are not “wild” and have had to live on their own
On the other hand just like there are bad parents there are bad trainers or presenters but eneither last long for they both get them selves in trouble
The Circus has been great family entertainment for centries now all of a sudden its not ?
I think you could really do some home work on your thinking
It is obvious the clown college that everyone on this blog has attended has taught you only how to abuse the animals and how to ‘attempt’ to cover up the abuse. I would suggest they open a course in spelling and grammar.
If I have any other thought or options I will address them to a kindergarten group of children, I’m sure it would be no different than this blog
Thank you & have a great day
Diana *mauh*
Hi diana,your opinions are certainly interesting to read even if I disagree strongly with them.
Though I hate to be the one to tell you that picking on someone’s grammar and spelling, instead of the actual topic you’re debating is quite lame.It suggests you’ve run out of your so called “facts”.
I not going to dispute that there have never been instances of cruelty within the circus industry,but the thing that so many anti circus activists just can’t seem to comprehend is how can you use a select few cases as proof that the many thousands of people involved
I apologize as my comment accidentally posted too early.
Basically the point I can’t understand is that prejudice for the most part is frowned upon in today’s society,right?
Homophobia,racism,etc.
We understand that it inappropriate to judge someone based off a stereotype and that people should be judged as individuals.
So why is it so difficult for antis to grasp that circus people shouldn’t be stereotyped either.
That not all trainers are alike.
That not all circuses are alike.
It’s a pretty simple concept isn’t it?
Judge each circus individually and fairly.
You may be able to dredge up negative stories from the internet but why should those few unfortunate cases (if of course they are even true) cause so much strife for the many thousands of people in this industry? It isn’t fair.
Most circus animals in modern circuses live very good lives.
I stand by this.
Without wanting to stoop to your level Diana, I suggest that if you criticize other people’s grammar, you make sure that your grammar is of a higher standard than that of those you criticize.
Sam Haddock was paid $190,000 by animal rights groups for his testimony. That is why that particular case was thrown out of court by the Judge presiding over the case.
He (The Judge) asked the question “How many truly needy animals could have been helped with the $190,000 which Mr. Haddock put in his pocket? Did well meaning donators know that their donations were being given to a human being to line his pockets instead of facilities, equipment and materials to help animals? I suspect not.”
Animal abuse is wrong.
Whether that abuse takes place in an apartment, Police kennel, ranch, zoo or circus; it is wrong. However, when some mindless yob hangs his 6 month old puppy for fun, that individual should be punished – not everybody in the town who owns a dog.
Why should that not apply to the circus?
You are generalizing an entire community. Pre-judging their motifs based on a handful of grainy videos. Assuming that everybody who works in a circus abuses animals. Assuming that animals cannot possibly thrive and have a stimulating, varied life in circus. Assuming that the facilities cannot possibly be good enough to keep the animals in good health physically and psychologically. Based on what? Your own experiences with people working in a circus and your own first hand experiences of the life that animals lead in a well run circus? Of course not.
The imagery you have been digesting is horrific. It’s animal husbandry gone wrong, but it is far from typical of what goes on when the people who look after the animals a) know what they are doing and b) have a deep rooted respect and love for animals.
I would gladly point you in the right direction.
Diana – most circus folk speak more than one language. English is frequently not their first language as most circus folk have European connections. Written communication is often on mobile phones etc. Yes, some of us have more English education and greater communication skills. I can spell but I cant swing on a trapeze, perform double somersaults or win a Golden Clown award. Your personal comments are unfair and not deserved.
Its Interesting reading all the comments , the ones from the pro animal lobby are , despite a few grammatical errors, in the main intelligent , considerd arguments with some evidence to back them up , the other side is full of personal insults ,innuendo and basic bad manners ,
make of that what you will,
I am not an animal trainer even though most of my family were, or indeed are ,I knew from an early age that it was not my forte, I didn’t have the patience or the talent, 2 things that are vital if you want to work with animals,
I have seen a lot trainers over the years, many of them are my friends,I have only seen them sacrifice everything for their charges ,whether they be lions , tigers, elephants or whatever , they arrive at night on a new ground and before they eat or go to bed the animals are watered, fed, bedded down warm and comfortable and checked regularly,
The bottom line is their animals are a form of investment , you wouldn’t buy an expensive car and leave it to rust or hit it with a hammer , that would be stupid and these people aren’t stupid , they may not have perfect spelling or correct grammar but they are better human beings than those who terrorise, abuse, insult and demean them, most of them without ever having seen a circus performance or training session and witnessed the respect and love that exists between a good trainer and a beautiful animal
personally I prefer the company of my dog to most humans , maybe I would be a good trainer
It’s really very simple. Animals simply ‘don’t belong’ in circuses, whether they are well cared for or not. It’s not natural, it’s confining, it’s stressful. Those are all obvious for anyone to see.
When you see an elephant from a circus or a zoo, that has been confined to small spaces for years, and made to entertain audiences year after year….when you see this elephant delivered to a sanctuary with acres of land and freedom, water to splash in and new family to bond with, it will be clear that freedom is by far much more appealing to an elephant than remaining chained to a circus truck.
“They too, are created by the same loving hand of God which Created us…It is our duty to Protect Them and to promote their well-being.”—Mother Teresa.
“The thinking person must oppose all cruel customs no matter how deeply rooted in tradition or surrounded by a halo….We need a boundless ethic which includes the animals also.”—Albert Schweitzer
“Animals, as part of God’s creation, have rights which must be respected. It behooves us always to be sensitive to their needs and to the reality of their pain.”—Dr. Donald Coggan, former Archbishop of Canterbury
And God blessed them, and God said to them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and SUBDUE it: and have DOMINION over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and OVER EVERY LIVING THING that moves on the earth.
Mark, Instead of tossing that passage out there all the time as some sort of justification, you need to be able to articulate your thoughts and feelings on the subject and express how you feel. It’s easy to try to use the power of the Bible as a shield to protect yourself from being a good and compassionate person. Reading that passage does not convince me of anything that it seems you would like to convince me of. You have warped the message to fit your own believe system.
I have a response for your passage, but I would like to hear your thoughts before I respond any further. I can’t enter into a debate with you if you only put up a shield to deflect. There is no way to communicate and exchange thoughts in that way and I can’t waste my time with you.
Mark, have you read the bible? THOU SHALT NOT KILL. This means cruelty, killing, suffering, etc. I’m certain that you are familiar with one of the ten commandments. If you believe in God, God wants people to do what is ‘right’ in their hearts, not what is thought to be right in their minds or in their wallets.
The Bible is so misinterpreted. That is why the world is in so much endless chaos. Ho hum.
WONDERFUL REPLY, K. TAYLOR….I LOVE THE WAY YOU POSTED THIS. You are an amazing soul. Wonderful wonderful post. Thank you so much for posting this. I love it.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Interesting comments, I used to go to circuses were wild animals were used until I saw first hand some of the behind the scenes stuff that went on, never been to one since then. Even if you take away the horror of the abuse…even if that didnt exist, in UK, US and other countries we have this ‘policy’ for all animals, wild or domestic called the 5 Freedoms which is pure basics for their health and well being. A wild animal living ‘on the road’ is not getting those 5 freedoms, a wild animal standing on its head is not ‘normal behavior’, a wild animal begging like a domestic dog is taught to do is not ‘normal behavior’, a wild animal being chained to the ground is not normal or healthy. Elephants being shot in the street because theyve gone on a rampage is 100% avoidable elephant calves being ripped away from their mothers at a very young age is far from ‘normal’ and is psychologically damaging for both if not the entire ‘herd’.
If the only way an animal can be trained to put itself in unnatural positions and perform ‘tricks’ for the ‘sheep’ who sadly still see this as entertaining is by using bullhooks, tazors and in some cases using isolation as a punishment for not performing then thats not ‘training’ its bullying and its abuse….seriously, isnt it about time ‘we’ found something else to keep ‘us’ entertained. I find it very sad that people turn a blind eye to animal abuse in the name of entertainment.
If circuses are so good to the animals why is it in the news too often that this circus or that circuse has ‘settled out of court’ for abuse cases or are fined for animal abuse.
The day someone can show me countless videos of wild animals being trained ‘humanely’ and being housed adequately then I might just change my opinion on circuses but as of yet no one has ever been able to come up with this. In the meantime….. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9etWdQWKYE
That link is a typical video made from old, outdated and heavily edited footage. The majority of it from abroad, and also hardly any of it from the UK. There was a bear on there, from it’s surroundings obviously in the wild, and if it wasn’t in the wild then it proves that captive animals do have the freedom of the great outdoors. I also noticed some stuff from PeTA on it. Here is some more about PeTA for you.
http://www.onlineschools.org/blog/peta/ Give it a minute to load.
If you only ever see the scenes from outside and what you see on the Internet then I’m afraid I can’t listen to your side of the discussion. I took the time to research, I went behind the scenes, I asked to stay for a week to see what really went on. I was impressed and totally changed my views.
It is privately owned animals that need saving, the ones who never get to see the vet, the ones who get left home all day whilst the owners are out at work. The ones who have been bought purely as it is the going trend. ‘Ohhh, let’s all go buy a Husky’, the ones who are no longer needed as the substitute baby, ‘we’ll put the Staffy in the rescue now we’re splitting up and none of us want him’.
Please go and look at the links given. You won’t change your mind, but your mind will be put at rest to see that the Freedoms are very much met. And if you don’t believe the freedoms are met, then go sue the RSPCA because they visit and give glowing reports on an extremely regular basis. They just don’t admit to it as then they’ll lose your donation.
If you have friends who have dogs, ask them how far and wide do they exercise them. Do they get the minimum they should get of a good brisk two hour walk/play. Or do they get a quick 10 minute walk around the block to go poop. And if they sit/beg/lie down/fetch ask whether they were trained with a whip and a taser, or with treats and praise. ’cause, Guess what? Training is all the same. Praise and reward.
Do you know where that infographic you posted is from? A group called Center For Consumer Freedom (CCF) made it. It’s a front group for companies like Outback Steakhouse and Philip Morris that attacks any organization that might get in the way of their profits like MADD, HSUS, NPR, even the CDC! They twist things all the time to make it seem like great organizations are corrupt or out to get you because that way they’re able to keep getting richer and richer.
So if youve seen so much humane treatment and training going on why havent you got video of it to ‘debunk’ all the horror we see? Like I said, Ive been asking pro cap people for years for this but as of yet no one has offered anything apart from ‘cute photos’ which really do not tell the story. Ive been behind the scenes myself, thats why I stopped going, didnt have a problem with circuses before then. Twice Ive lived were circuses were located for a week or two where the animals would spend most of the day couped up in cages…if someone kept their dog in a crate most of the day they would be prosecuted, they have been prosecuted.
As for the pics in the video, some of them are old pics, some are more recent, the bear ‘in the wild’ was a rescue from a circus that was a bit mental due to spending most of its life confined. The photos are from all over the world and Im pretty sure that a couple of the photos in there are of Anne being beat by her ‘carer’ which wasnt that long ago.
Im more than happy to keep an open mind just on the off chance anyone can ever produce a quality video of teaching an elephant to stand on its head or balance on one foot without using bullhooks or tazors…start to finish, when I see them all resting between shows in large replicated natural enclosures.
In the meatime I look forward to the Roberts court case in June, just sad that their hired help cant be brought back to this country to face charges….and no, I dont believe for a second that they were not aware of what was going on!!
@ jackie kelly Theres more than enough videos to prove how it really is in circuses try visiting http://www.truthtube.co.uk and see how well animals are really cared for in circuses your find a huge difference to the false edited propeganda that the animal rights groups will have you believe and at least all the video’s on there are genuine unedited video taken from real circuses and their real living conditions and welfare ect…
@Shaun Bailey, Ive seen a lot of those videos, it proves that ‘not everyone abuses the animals’, it proves that some animals get to hang out in fields sometimes, it doesnt prove that abuse doesnt happen. Whether its animal related, kid related, military related its the undercover videos that speak volumes not the planned videos where everyone knows the world is watching. I believe that many wild animal trainers in circuses, land or water circuses, care very much about the animals but that doesnt mean abuse doesnt go on, like the Roberts for example, they say they love and respect the animals, it didnt stop some nasty peice of work beating an elephant….beating an arthritic elephant on its legs, without their knowledge, and even if they never saw it first hand, as the owners of these animals they had an obligation to know what was happening, and as someone has already pointed out, if they (circus’s in general) were so good about their animal welfare policies why are they still being fined?
Video’s of elephant abuse, what are you saying? that organizations break into these places, beat the elephants so they video it and blame it on the circus owners? hardly, considering many of the videos show the faces of the abusers, they would have been busted for that a long time ago, Why is it that as soon as someone mentions ‘animal rights’ the ‘sheep’ assume it has to be PETA related and everyone is brainwashed!! Thats a myth in itself and is the usual pro-cap way of trying to convince the ignorant that they are superior and anyone that has anything to do with animal rights is nuts. I guess you dont believe that anything bad goes on in vivisection labs either.
I dont believe that Siegfried and Roy have ever abused their tigers but I know that Berrosini was done for abusing the primates he used on stage, the videos of this was not done by PETA.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/03/27/shocking-video-shows-anne-the-elephant-being-beaten-with-a-pitchfork-115875-23018227/ not filmed by Peta,
heres a ‘really cute’ photo/video of a baby elephant learning ‘his tricks’….photos were not taken by Peta http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDMyEHY6ELs&feature=related
this must be some of that Peta ‘propoganda’ your talking about…. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECspj0daAlE
this is an older one and since the newer regs came in there are less and less circuses using wild animals, still worth a watching though…again, not done by Peta http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgk4B9KJnpY&feature=related
firstly a lot of those videos were not taken pre planned, secondly there is scientific evidence to back them up,finally ringling won a recent court case because the person reporting so called abuse admitted being paid to lie about them, ADI falsely made that video it was a set up and there is proof to back that up including an indepth analysis of the video proving that not only was it poorly edited but also has a dubbed soundtrack over the top, 2ndly no one knew what was going on and the person carrying out the abuse was a plant by ADI and was paid to do it just to get false video to create propeganda to line their own pockets with sympathy funds nothing more. also most of the polls that claim overwhelming public support are flawed again full evidence to back that up. the list goes on so go check for real info and you can see for yourself http://www.circusthetruth.com
Whether or not animals are abused in the circus or treated like royalty in circus is not the issue. Yes, some circus animals are treated very well and some are not. People cannot dispute that they are some are not abused. The USDA confiscated 2 elephants that were being forced to perform while clearly being very sick or injured (Delhi and Ned both retired to The Elephant Sanctuary – both died, one from injuries sustained while being in the circus, the other from being weaned too soon). That said, I do believe that there are elephant keepers that form deep bonds with the elephants and do not abuse them. However, the act of confining a wild animal for human entertainment does not say much about us a country. There are several countries that do not allow wild exotic animals to perform in the circus . The act of employing circus animals by confining them ( by removing them from the wild, chaining them to a post, and housing in small box car) for the sole purpose of human entertainment is one of the most selfish acts we do today. Animals don’t perform tricks in the wild. Animals don’t sway, or bob their heads up and down or rock back and forth or pace in the wild. This is unnatural stereotypic behavior indicative of a traumatic episode. Just because they are capable of performing tricks does not make it okay and shows how arrogant we are in thinking that only human life is important. I am not an animal rights activist but I do support a ban on circus animals. We cite all types laws, guidelines standards, and hands on practices that tell us exactly just how inhumane we are allowed to be to animals before we get into trouble because their lives are not worth a much a human life. And that is a fact. There is no way to justify that this type of captivity is okay when we certainly would not do this to people.
If circus animals are treated so well, why did Ringling Bros. just get fined $270k for violations of the Animal Welfare Act? Why was Doug Terranova (he rents out animals to circuses and fairs) just fined $25k for violations of the Animal Welfare Act? Why was the Liebel Family Circus just recently charged with almost 3 dozen violations of the AWA after he had already been ordered to pay $3k for previous violations? Circus animals are not treated well. This isn’t some anti-circus propaganda, this is from the USDA.
ok KD24 if your claiming that why did Ringling recently WIN a court case that was brought against them because the only witness ADMITTED TO BEING PAID TO LIE ABOUT RINGLING by one of the animal rights groups ?
I’ve never heard of that case, but it is a fact that Ringling violated the Animal Welfare Act and was ordered to pay $270k.
This is the case “shaun-bailey” is referring to;
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/expatnews/6947376/Big-win-for-the-big-top.html
$190,000 of donations which were supposed to be helping animals were instead paid to a circus worker in exchange for his testimony against his former employers.
It’s simple, really, and Sabine (above) has it exactly right: “We cite all types of laws, guidelines, standards, and hands-on practices that tell us exactly just how inhumane we are allowed to be to animals before we get into trouble because their lives are not worth as much a human life. And that is a fact. There is no way to justify that this type of captivity is okay when we certainly would not do this to people.”
I repeat: “There is no way to justify that this type of captivity is okay when we certainly would not do this to people.”
All animals are thinking, sentient creatures – “nonhuman persons” – with undoubtedly rich emotional lives (that we can only guess at), and many come from wild families who mourn the kidnapping of their offspring and siblings no differently than people do. This is scientific fact.
There WILL come a time when this type of capture, captivity, forced confinement, training, exploitation (and often abuse), and SLAVERY of ANIMAL BEINGS will be seen to be just as wrong and reprehensible as it is now universally agreed to be for HUMAN beings.
And we do this to animals for no other reason than that we CAN, and because we imagine ourselves to better, or more intelligent, or more valuable, than they are.
This is speciesism at its most repugnant.
And it is WRONG.
And history, evolution – and eventually the LAW – will prove us right in this belief.
For those of you who like circuses so much, BY ALL MEANS give up your present lives and go and VOLUNTEER yourselves to be coerced, and trained, and beaten, and electrically-prodded, and bullhooked, and “lovingly cared for” in CIRCUSES, if you think that life is so wonderful… all for entertainment of paying idiots.
But until ANIMALS have the same right to NOT be ENSLAVED as you do to attend or not attend the circus, your insistence that this is “okay” only diminishes ALL of us, and disproves that we are the more advanced, caring, compassionate, intelligent species we like to think of ourselves as being.
Unfortunately Jack, it’s not “simple”. I apologize for a long winded reply, but no matter how strong your views are on the matter; mine are stronger because I am directly involved.
Having experienced animal “rights” activists and campaigners first hand, I tend to hear the same tired arguments again and again.
First the argument will be that animals in circuses simply have to be banned because the animals are beaten, electrocuted and stuffed into small boxes. Their lives are miserable and their life expectancy is well below what it should be. This argument – when not countered – gains a great deal of support from neutrals and animal welfarists (which is not the same as animal “rightists”). You will doubtlessly point out the videos posted by animal rights groups showing abuse and poor conditions; I will come back to that…
When it is shown that it is absolutely not necessary (rather it is counterproductive) to beat an animal during training – or at any point, and that in fact animals can thrive and have a wonderfully stimulating life in captivity, often extending their life expectancy by 100%, and that the facilities and enclosures on a well run circus can be the equal to or better than the facilities offered in other animal husbandry situations, the response often changes to a debate on morals and ethics – such as in your post. Words such as “speciesism” are invented. Activists demand that the human race should have the same ethical views that they do, at the risk of being looked down upon. They mention that the advance of animal rights are a part of “evolution”.
It’s then when things cease to be “simple”. Everybody has their own individual set of ethical views; some will call it unethical to drink cow’s milk – some will think it unethical not to. You cannot assign rights to animals (again; in my view);
The problem with animal rights is that animals are incapable of recognizing and respecting reciprocal responsibility. If left completely free, animals would habitually engage in acts that would be criminal if performed by human beings. Bears and cougars would attack (assault) people. Dogs would defecate on (vandalize) people’s lawns. A million other “criminal acts” would be perpetrated by animals, in violation of others’ rights. This leads to one of two outcomes:
1) Humans and animals would necessarily have to have different standards of behavior. Acts against persons or property that would be criminal for humans, would be allowed for animals. In other words, animals would have superior rights to humans. We’d be constantly cleaning up after the criminality of animals, and would effectively be enslaved to creatures that didn’t have a second thought to us and our rights (which undoubtably do exist). This is backward, to put it mildly.
2) To protect us from the criminal acts of animals, we’d have to “imprison” animals that “break the law.” Since animals don’t have the reasoning ability to make rational choices, most animals would eventually end up imprisoned for breaking the law. So we’d be locking up all these “freed” animals…how exactly does that respect their “rights?”
The concept of “animal rights” is an enviro-fantasy based on a misguided and ill-considered desire for animals to be happy. We have a responsibility to animals, not to mistreat them or cause them undue pain or suffering. There are, and should be, laws against animal cruelty. But to ascribe “rights” to animals goes against the concept of reciprocal responsibility which is inherent in the very definition of rights.
PeTA suggested the Jewish holocaust was no worse than the use of animals in farming, which I find only slightly more reprehensible than your comparison of animal husbandry with the human slave trade. Those views border on extremism (although again that is relative) and often do more harm than good for the aims of people who are campaigning for good animal welfare (but not rights or liberation).
The videos that you and other animal rights campaigners point to are failures. Failures by that individual human. By beating an animal, that individual is looking for a cure for the frustration that he feels when the animal doesn’t do what he wants. He is not beating the animal for the purposes of training; nothing can be learned when an animal is in a state of fear/self preservation. Therefore, animals in circuses are NOT trained by electrocutions, beatings etc. What you are seeing on some off the videos are isolated and thankfully rare cases of abuse, which unfortunately happen outside of the circus place far more frequently than within the circus community.
If I can keep my animals to a ripe old age, in excellent physical and psychological condition, with good conditions, stimulation,without abuse or neglect, with others of their kind to allow for natural procreation, and for the sake of argument I would only work with animals are not tethered, put on a leash or guided with a stick etc; the animal must follow me of it’s own free will, and if it doesn’t want to “perform”, it doesn’t perform. What objection could you have to me living and working in a circus with them?
Your objections at an ethical level, and my not having the same ethical values that you have.
That’s why it is far from “simple”.
It matters now the age of an animal, it matters their quality of life. The point is, the animal has no choice in being used for entertainment. Animals should have rights, because no animal should feel pain inflicted by any human being. Your views of animals and humans living together is somewhat clouded. Bears would attack people, etc. I find many flaws in your statements. And drinking milk from cows – it is not the fact they people drink the milk, it is the way that the milk is obtained. You are flitting around the real problem, which is animal abuse and cruelty, which is the topic, by writing about a myriad of other things surrounding animal abuse as a way of distracting the issue at hand and those who are reading it. Animal rights means being a voice for animals, such as they are not mistreated, etc. That is what animal rights is all about. You somehow wrote hypocritical statements regarding animal rights and your point became deluded. Again, the fact of the matter is, animal rights are just simply that. Animal rights. Standing up for someone who is unable to stand up for themselves, because humans use power (guns, electric prods, etc) to coerce animals into doing what ‘they’ want them to do. Animals do not attack unless threatened. Humans abuse animals and eploit them for their own reasons. Therefore Ingo Steibner, it is quite simple. Animal rights definition:The rights to humane treatment claimed on behalf of animals, especially the right not to be exploited for human purposes. I am not sure what you are trying to say, but again, it’s pretty simple. We are a group of people ensuring that animals are protected. End of story. Simple is as simple is.
Very well written Jack Colwell. I agree with everything that you have said.
It is a power control over being able to do what they can. Humans are ‘supposed’ to be the more intelligent species, indicating intelligence would mean compassion and doing what is ‘right’. I have yet to see the population of the world act in this manner, for then there would be world peace, the end of world hunger and the end of suffering for all sentients. I just read your final paragraph after I wrote the above. I do hope that the LAW will parallel what compassion means rather than outdated laws that are not always appropriate. It is no more a right of humans to exploit animals or fellow humans. Society today is desensitized by many means and forms of entertainment. I find it appalling for animals to do tricks and humans for that matter. No living creature should be confined, enslaved, trained, abused for any reason, ever. Perhaps one day, the people on this planet will share the same compassion for fellow humans and animals.
In the meantime, I personally will create awareness, remain an advocate for animals (and humans), change outdated barbaric laws and remain dignified in doing so. For humanity is at stake and this demands preservation and restoration. And it needs to start now.
“I find it appalling for animals to do tricks and humans for that matter.”
Did I understand that correctly or was that a typo? You find it appalling when HUMANS do tricks?
circus berserkus
let animals be
they do not belong
entertaining
“humanity”
The time has come when the world population has realized the abusive treatment all animals endure in circuses. The time has come for us to end what we began in 1793 in Philadelphia.
“…the abusive treatment all animals endure in circuses.”
The fact that you believe this displays the ignorance most people have as regards the subject of animals in circuses. One case of abuse is one case too many – but animals in circuses are no more abused than dogs and cats in animal loving homes.
To be fair, no ones denied that abuse goes on with domestic animals, usually when someone’s witnessed taking a pitchfork, spade, baseball bat or whatever else equates to a bullhook to a dog they will likely go to jail and geta fine/ ban on keeping animals of any kind, unfortunately circuses have always been governed by a different set of regulations than those that apply to pets.
It kills me that some people can happily watch footage of animals being abused or treated with cruelty but the very same people will not go and look at footage of happy, well looked after animals….is it just me that thinks it’s warped to repeatedly watch footage of animals being hurt?
Please learn the difference between the animal rights lobby and the WELFARE of animals.
And please stop trying to convince me that the animals in the Circus are abused or treated with cruelty. I have been there, done that…..and changed the way I think because I took the time to open my mind and see for myself how they really live. Happily and with their Freedoms more than adequately taken care of.
Go and fight for THIS to stop, hunt down these vile beings. This was on my Facebook page that someone else had shared. See how long it is before someone edits it and says it’s from the Circus….https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s320x320/408781_10151210221345198_333385633_n.jpg
Gill those vile excuses for humans on your link, Ive had that on my fb page as well…I really hope they are found and are prosecuted but your comment on how long it will be before someone edits it to say its from a circus is childish, immature, and another pathetic attempt from a pro cap to try and discredit anyone who speaks out against animal abuse.
Have you….has anyone who Ive responded to so far given me any answer to the videos I posted above, the elephants being beaten at Ringlings, Anne being beat at the Roberts….no, seriously Im practically begging here for somene to talk me through either of those videos and tell me that its not abusive….no one will because no one can, because everyone knows it is abuse in every sense of the word…..you want to convince me and many others that abuse does not happen in circuses…then do it, explain those videos and exactly what is happening.
Jackie,
Have you ever tried to nail jello to a tree?
I gave up on any form of adult/intellectual communication!
I think I responded to the videos in my above comments – but I’ll address them individually here. The Anne video; has anybody actually wondered WHY the groom was beating Anne the Elephant? What was the purpose? It certainly wasn’t an attempt to train the Elephant; Anne had been retired from performing for (I think) years. Certainly 2 years.
So why beat the Elephant? Was it “misbehaving”? Being aggressive? Certainly not in the videos released by ADI – it seemed that the groom was just swinging at her for the heck of at, at random times and occasions.
You may call me a skeptic, but please do research on this; just before Nicolae Nitu was filmed beating Anne, ADI posted a £10,000 reward on their website for any video evidence of animals being abused in Circuses. Nitu was not from a circus background; he had never looked after elephants before Anne, and had arrived cap in hand at Bobby Robert’s circus, and disappeared off the face of the planet BEFORE ADI released the video to the press. ADI have a history of paying witnesses; recently a US judge threw a ADI case out of court, when it was discovered that the lead witness (a former circus artist) had been paid $190,000 for his testimony. Again, please don’t take my word for it.
For arguments sake, let’s suppose that Nitu wasn’t paid by ADI. It still doesn’t explain his actions. If they weren’t money motivated, then he did it purely to be evil; he wasn’t achieving anything with Anne, he wasn’t punishing her for something she did wrong, he wasn’t trying to train her; I can only assume he was mentally deranged somehow. Either way he is a wanted man. I can assure you that if anyone from the circus community found him, he would be made to face the consequences.
Before he faced the consequences of his actions, I would love to hear what motivated him to do what he did, and how could he afford to leave the country so quickly? Why was he covering his face if he didn’t know he was being filmed? Why did ADI allow the abuse to continue for 3 months instead of informing the authorities after the first case of abuse captured on film? I suspect we will never know – but ADI are still offering cash for abuse videos, which is of course extremely tempting to a poorly paid groom.
As far as the Ringlings videos go, I’ve got to say I’m stumped. I have no explanation for what I watched – except …. surprise, surprise; they were taped by Tom Rider. Tom Rider is the aforementioned person paid $190,000 by ADI, who was described by the Federal Judge as “essentially a paid plaintiff and fact witness who lacked credibility.” I’m not saying that the Elephants were not being abused, just extremely suspicious about any evidence coming from a man who was paid a fortune by an animal rights group. Although I haven’t researched too deeply, I know that the trainers involved no longer work for Ringlings, and that Ringlings have made a $270,000 settlement with the USDA, and have agreed to “implement new training protocols for any circus employees who handle animals”.
Can you answer a few questions I have? I’d love to hear your views. You are basing your views of an entire community on the actions of a handful of sensational cases over the last 50 years. I’m taking a wild guess and estimating that there are around 100,000 people performing in, or working for a circus around the world. In the UK alone, there were over 1,100 cases of animal abuse successfully prosecuted in a court of law. That’s in 2010 alone. During it’s 200 year history there have been 3 prosecutions of people working in a circus for abusing animals.
Should people base their views of animal rights campaigners on the extremists who bomb, burn and assault their opponents? Can you explain to me the thinking behind animal rights campaigners actions when the Hall family at Darley Oaks Farm in Newchurch, Staffordshire, were targeted by animal rights extremists for breeding guinea pigs for medical research? During a six-year campaign, the remains of a family relative, Gladys Hammond, were dug up and stolen. They have never been retrieved. Should the actions of the few be allowed to taint the efforts of many genuine animal lovers? Or should we both just treat people as individuals, and judge them – and them alone – based on their actions? I think I know your answer as far as the animal rights extremists go.
@Ingo and Gill you make it sound as though Nitus treatment of Anne ‘does’nt count’ because he wasnt actually training her!! and qutie frankly, the Roberts were responsible for hiring him they should have made sure he wasnt going to abuse the animals, Anne wasnt the only animal there that he beat nor was alone in the barn, there is clearly someone else just a few yards away, why didnt that person report him to the Roberts? to the police? to the RSPCA? I have no idea why Nitu beat Anne (oh and incidentally Gill, his face can be seen as clear as day in most of the footage) Ive hired vet techs and dog trainers many times and you can bet your life if I see any abuse going on in either field they’re out of there if I can or at the very least theyre reported to the management/owners of the establishments and supervised.
Correct me if Im wrong…and Im sure you will but wasnt Bobby Roberts reported about 5 years ago for beating Anne? (I wasnt actually living in UK when this happened but from what Ive read, ) they were offered money then after a newspaper campaign and donations sent in to buy her but they turned it down, she was interviews by one of the main dailys last year saying she didnt want to part with Anne because it would ‘break her husbands heart’ and that the only place she would be able to go would be a sanctuary in US!!!! only now is Moira Roberts saying theyve been trying for 2 years to get someone to take her but to be honest thats a cop out in itself, anyone who takes on an animal.,.and it was the Roberts family who took Anne from her in Sri Lanka orignially to use in their circus, whether its a pet dog or wild animal has an obligation to give the animal a secure home and take care of its health and wellbeing for the rest of its life…not just until it stops making them money, its the typical ‘passing the buck’….theyre up in court in a few months and theyre going to try and save their own backsides by blaming other organizations for not taking Anne 2 years ago, ridiculous!!
Talking about passing the buck, so what ADI got the footage, so what if Peta gets footage, who cares who gets the footage, its a well known fact that animal abuse cases are hard to prove without visible evidence….and seriously, Ive seen this first hand over and over again over the years….when you know there is abuse going on at a facility but you cant do anything about it because its your word against theirs, the only thing left to do is to get actual footage, physical injuries are too often explained away and if there is any doubt as to how the injuries occur then nothing can be done. Does it really matter that the guy who got the Ringlings footage was a disgruntled employee, a set up even? of course not, just because you dont like his motives for getting the footage does not mean it didnt happen and does not mean it is anything other than what you can clearly see…and for Gill, no, you dont see the elephants going into the ring but to say that is not at a circus where do you think it is? you think maybe a bunch of ‘animal rights activists’ kidnapped a load of elephants, got the elephants and themselves dressed up along with all the extras in the ‘circus style clothing’ and then beat the elephants? where or what else would that be if its not a circus, apart from the fact that Ingo (your on the same side remember) states exactly who set up the videoing!!
Mary Chipperfield, her husband and elephant ‘groom’ all got prosecuted for various cruelty charges including beating a sick elephant and beating a baby chimp and they were supposed to be one of the worlds ‘greatest circuses’ along with Ringlings and Barnums….all have been prosecuted. The USDA admits they do not have the funding to investigate all the reports of abuse let alone take them court, and as for the RSPCA, I respect a lot of what they do, I know what theyre trying to do but they are bound by regulations. I know of 4 times over the last 3/4 years where they have been called out to a facility where abuse and major neglect has been reported and every time theyve been they cant do anything because all they can do is ensure that there is a roof over the animals heads and they have food and water….the fact that some of these animals had horrendous illnesses due to the worst housing Ive personally ever seen anywhere, were stabled with animals they didnt know and were injuring each other, the fact that most the containers had no water in them…it was all over the floor was irrelevant, they had water containers and thats all that mattered…and a long list of other issues that had they been in a home situation, the owners would probably be in prison right now…interesting that they have the local council in their back pocket….and theyre facts which Ive seen and know about personally!!
I understand anyone not wanting to see the horror of many of these videos, When youve seen first hand and worked with animals that have been disgustingly abused, it does, without a doubt desensitize you to at least some level of the horror but for those who dont watch it dont sit there condemning those who get the footage and continue to shoot off about how abuse is rare if it happens at all at circuses or that the footage is somehow fake….Im glad ADI are around, if it wasnt for them no one would even know about Anne, no one would know about a lot of the abuse that goes on and the general public would be no more aware of the abuse now than they were 30 years ago.
Abuse in British circuses over the last 15 years
If you cant stomach the ‘training’ go forward to about the 5 minute mark for news reports, I remember all of these when I lived in US…they wonder why elephants go mad!!! Tyke was shot over 100 times and it took about 2 hours for her to die, she had been abused by her ‘trainer’s’ for years.
http://reporter.911animalabuse.com/_Circus-Elephant-Training/video/230514/23072.html
jackie, Oh, I wholeheartedly agree that the footage on the Anne video was disgusting, although I must admit to not watching it past the first strike. I was more disgusted at the actions not taken after the footage had been edited before being sent out to the media. As I’ve stated repeatedly, I cannot watch footage such horrible treatment to animals, NOBODY who GENUINELY cares about Animal Welfare could. As far as the alleged Ringling’s footage, I’m afraid I can’t comment, I have never been to RIngling’s and as the footage filmed isn’t at a Circus, (it could be anywhere, but with the surrounding barriers/fencing/whatever it is I saw on the thumbnail of the video, it is definitely not at a Circus), I did not watch it and have no desire to watch it if it contains any kind of cruelty, then I cannot comment on it.
As far as the footage of Anne goes, my views are below in a copy and paste I did elsewhere on this debate, I do apologise if you thought I was being evasive, I’d assumed you would have navigated around the whole debate site and thought you would have already seen it. Anyway, here is the copy and paste, (I did edit it slightly from the original) >>>>>>
Circus Animals have all their essential annual veterinary check ups, their inoculations and worming treatments are all up to date. They have regular visits from the farrier. All this is required for them to retain their passports AND is adhered to as normal practise anyway as they sometimes travel to areas where they may be at risk of catching something from the many privately owned animals that hasn’t had all their checks.
Go and visit, unannounced, ask to see the animals facilities, ask to see a training session and ask to see all the documentation. Amongst the documentation will be reports from the RSPCA as they visit every time they get a hoax call, which is a regular occurrence as there are a lot of people out there who haven’t taken the care to research the REAL welfare. Instead believing the old, heavily edited and outdated footage, mostly from abroad and the majority of it not even from the Circus.
The case of Anne…….Here are the events.
The Animal Defence International, (ADI) set up the camera.
The ‘groom’, (who has only just started working there), is filmed beating Anne up, feeling the need to cover his face, EVEN THOUGH HE DIDN’T KNOW HE WAS BEING FILMED, WHY?. He continues this for over four weeks.
The ‘groom’ disappears.
The heavily edited video ends up in the hands of the press, instead of the Police and the RSPCA.
My questions……..
If the ADI had an inkling that Anne was being beaten, WHY, wasn’t the camera down after the first day? WHY, did they continue to let Anne get beaten? Someone with TRUE concerns for animal welfare would have had that footage straight to the relevant authorities. They wouldn’t have let the animal continue to suffer.
WHY, did the ADI have a job advertised last year, $18,000 reward for video footage showing cruelty to animals in the entertainment industry?
You do the math.
Most of these animal rights organisations are out for sympathy donations. They show footage, they get money pouring in.
Animal WELFARE is totally different to animal rights.
I’m not asking you to change your opinions on whether you like to see animals in the Circus, we all have a right to our opinions. But please do know the difference between Welfare and rights. animal rights are after all human contact with animals to cease, even down to your household pets. They want the animals to have the right to be superior over humans.
Animal Welfare is about providing the animal with all it needs to live a fulfilled life.
Please visit the group Behind the scenes look at the WELFARE of Circus animals on FB, and visit circusthetruth.blogspot.com. See some mind opening blogs and views. And see the facilities and training. If you have previously seen ‘cruel’ footage, it will warm the cockles of your heart to see the happy animals in their surroundings. Like I say, I’m not trying to make you change your mind, but it will put it at rest.
Thank you for taking the time to read this.
As a footnote, I forgot to mention that Bobby and Moira had been trying, and failing, to place Anne in a Sanctuary or Safari park for over two years, knowing it wasn’t fair on her to take her on the road, but not working, for another season because of her Arthritis, knowing it wasn’t fair on her to be the only animal at her winter quarters, thus feeling she’d be happier living amongst types of her own.
Nobody was interested in taking her on, not until she became big news and big news means big, (free), publicity.
The keeper at Longleat did praise Bobby and Moira saying they must have been doing something right for her to reach such a grand old age. Her arthritis WASN’T caused by her being in the Circus, it is a thing that will catch up with all oldies in the end.
There is a video on the Behind the scenes look at the Welfare of Circus animals, it was from the (BBC) One Show and it shows the keeper saying his bit.
Oh, I forgot to address the comment I made about the photograph being edited. My comment wasn’t childish, it was based on fact. I have evidence of such practise, some of it coming in form of a confession from a zoo worker who was offered extra money to put bars in front of their Tigers on a photoshoot, ‘to make it look like they’re in a Circus’
Diana, I seriously advise against nailing anything to a tree. I really care about animals and their welfare and hammering a nail, which would eventually go rusty, into a tree could threaten the life of the tree. Animals need trees, well we all do really, but more so animals. That tree could be home to a family of squirrels and you nailing anything to it could cause them to be homeless somewhere in the future.
If you feel frustrated can i be suggest you bang your head against a brick wall instead?
Save a tree, save a squirrel and all that.
Please excuse the typo’s. The second to last sentence was meant to read …… If you feel frustrated, may I please suggest you bang your head against a brick wall instead?
GREECE BANS ALL ANIMAL CIRCUSES ;}
<3 The Greek Goverment has just banned the use of all animals in circuses <3
Great news, Bolivia and Peru also have an outright ban.
Yes, one more country to add to the list. Here is a list of all the countries that have banned circuses of the past 2 years. I will try to find the actual link …
Worldwide circus bans
Posted: 27 March 2006. Updated: 29 September 2011
EUROPE
Austria: Nationwide ban on the use of wild animals in circuses.
Croatia: Nationwide ban on the use of wild animals in circuses.
Czech Republic: Nationwide ban on the use of certain species in circuses.
Denmark: Nationwide ban on the use of certain species in circuses.
Estonia: Nationwide ban on the use of wild-born animals in circuses.
Finland: Nationwide ban on the use of certain species in circuses.
Greece: Local bans on the use of animals in circuses in 30 towns.
Hungary: Nationwide ban on the use of wild caught animals in circuses, the purchase and training of elephants and primates for circus performances and the purchase, training and use of CITES (Appendix 1) listed species in circuses.
Ireland: Local bans on the use of animals in circuses in Cork and Fingal.
Poland: Nationwide ban on the use of wild-born animals in circuses.
Portugal: Nationwide ban restricting the use of great apes in circuses and the acquisition and breeding of CITES listed species.
Spain: Local bans on the use of animals in circuses in several towns including the capital cities of Catalonia (Barcelona, Tarragona, Ileida and Girona) and San Fernando de Henares (autonomous community of Madrid).
Sweden: Nationwide ban on the use of certain species in circuses.
UK: Over 200 local authorities have bans on animal circuses (more than two thirds of these ban all performing animals, the remainder ban just wild animals). A public consultation that showed that 94.5% of the public support a ban on wild animals in circuses and the Government announced that this would be pursued.
NORTH AMERICA
USA: Local bans on the use of animals in circuses in over 25 cities, located in 12 states throughout the East and West Coasts.
Canada: Local bans on the use of animals in circuses in over 20 municipal jurisdictions.
CENTRAL AND SOUTH AMERICA
Argentina: Local bans on the use of animals in circuses in over 20 cities including a ban in the city of Buenos Aires.
Bolivia: Nationwide ban on the use of wild and domestic animals in circuses.
Brazil: Local bans on the use of wild and domestic animals in circuses in the districts of Rio de Janeiro, São Paulo, Pernambuco, Paraiba, Rio Grande do Sul, Espiritu Santo, Mato Grosso do Sul, Alagos.
Chile: Local bans on the use of wild and domestic animals in circuses in the city of Santiago.
Costa Rica: Nationwide ban on the use of wild animals in circuses.
Peru: Nationwide ban on the use of wild animals in circuses.
OCEANIA
Australia: Local bans on the use of animals in circuses in several towns including Parramata and Lismore.
ASIA
India: Nationwide ban on the use of certain species in circuses.
Israel: Nationwide ban on the use of wild animals in circuses.
Singapore: Nationwide ban on the use of wild animals in circuses.
Taiwan: Nationwide prohibition on the import or export of protected wildlife for circuses.
Here is the link to all the countries that have placed a ban on the use animals in circuses http://www.ad-international.org/animals_in_entertainment/go.php?id=281&ssi=10
Animal circus supporters may have a field day with this because it is from ADI (Animal Defenders International) but this is the only organization that I know of that tracks this information. There are quite a few countries that have now imposed a ban. Almost all of Europe, Asia and South America have bans imposted. North Amierica is the ONLY continent without a single country that imposes a ban. These are just facts, no opinion posted here.
Thanks Sabine for posting this. Can add Puerto De La Cruz in Tenerife (unless I missed it), strange how they only banned land animal use though and not marine, then again, Keissling!!!!
Ringling recently paid a fine of some $270,000 to avoid going to court over their abuse of animals. $270 K is chump change for them, it’s just a cost of doing business. They claim to take care of their animals, but much documentation to the contrary exists. The ONLY way to stop the cruel abuse is to ban all circus from having any animals. They have no compassion only interest in the short term dollar. It’s been that way for a very long time. It’s time to stop it. Greece has banned all animals circuses. They are a fine example and to be congratulated for doing the right thing!
You are so right no circus should have animal, all animals should be free.
Do you not think that in this day and age of fb and YouTube that it is not feasible for things to be staged.
Animals have bin working with people for hundreds of years are you telling me that all animals have bin beaten, whipped to do what is asked of them. If any of you have pets then you know posetive reinforcement is the only way!
We can name call all we like but there a still people in this country who won’t to see animals in circuses and I’m glad for that.
Amanda looks after her animals superbly, there in stunning condition and that is way she is proud to show them off in the ring, and out side.
You have probably worked out that I’m 100 o/o behind animals in circuses but not just circuses, zoo’s safari parks and the humble pet owner.
I owne a family circus with my husband and our family and yes we have animals and they have a grate life so much so that one of the ponys with us is 23 and still going strong! He was saved from the meet man as a foal. We are veterinary inspected and are animals are on show 24/7.
At the end of the day if you don’t won’t to see it don’t come to the circus but don’t believe all you see on the web please at least come and see for your self’s, don’t be to quick to juge lest you be juged
Absolutely! The suffering has to stop!!!
I am being asked again and again why Amanda is being ‘attacked’. Perhaps if she hadn’t commented that circus animals have a fantastic way of life, it would not have started this rash slew of comments from people in general. It is always best to choose words wisely and correctly, otherwise, be prepared for people to question. May all animals live free as they were meant to, without cruelty and suffering enforced upon them by humans and may humans be out of harms way from humans, as well.
“May all animals live free as they were meant to, without cruelty and suffering enforced upon them by humans and may humans be out of harms way from humans, as well.”
This means no pest control, no interaction, no pets etc. What an awful world you are wishing on us all!
There is no need for comments like that and there is no need to chastise on either side. No one is pushing to such extremes suggested above and to say so is irrational discussion. But there is a difference between a termite and an elephant. There is a difference between a house cat and a tiger. Comparison of pests to wild animal is absurd (I am the one making this comparison for the sake of an example) just as comparison of domestic house cat to wild cat is absurd.
We tend to control other species based on our own size. Pests aside, if we are bigger than the other species, we can control with our size and presence. But when the species is bigger than us, that is not possible. So other measures are taken. An animal will not perform if you do not ask it to. A wild animal learns to perform after h/se has perceived that the situation is not threatening to his/her survival. After than it the performance becomes a conditioned response. There is no way to determine if the animal is enjoying performing, but the fact that the animal does not continue to perform after a performance is complete is useful information.
I am not sure how allowing an elephant or tiger to live like an elephant and tiger wishes one an awful world. And a statement like that shows only shows how this would impact us, but not the benefit of the animal.
I ask that you don’t chastise my comments because my comments are based on fact and not opinion and I cannot continue a discussion that is patronizing. Disagreeing is fine.
Dear Barry Nixon
You are clearly missing the point. You are creating an entirely different situation than that which I was stating. No where did I state that we should not interact with animals, however that interaction should be one of respect and consideration. When animals are forced to do tricks or live in a captive environment, such as a circus, it is not the natural state of the animal. As Sabine wrote, that animals forced to do tricks do not do them outside of the time that they are asked to do them, that proves it right then and there. They don’t enjoy doing the tricks, otherwise, they would do the tricks without command.
I am wishing everyone a wonderful world where co-relation exists, where we respect species and have the intelligence and compassion to do so and not arrogance.
As Sabine said, there is no point in discussing this with you, as we are keeping to the agenda and you are creating accusations that are not true. Stay with the facts, otherwise, you negate your point.
**Thank you Sabine.
karina,as i say get your facts right, i neither work or own a circus or any other form of entertainment that uses animals or other wise, i am just a person that has visited circuses and looked for my self and made my own opinion,not listened to other peoples opinions,GO AND LOOK FOR YOUR SELF , TILL THEN YOU CAN NOT COMMENT.